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Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

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Re: Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

#131

Post by thrower123 »

givinguflac wrote: post #68

My god if apple did something like this people would burn cities down. Why do people still trust Microsoft when their OS is literally a native advertising and tracking tool now

Apple goes further, and doesn't allow you to install any non-Apple browser on iOS, so...

99% of people do. not. care. about any of the telemetry and tracking hijinks that get us here feather-white. They just want a computer that works, and that they can run Office and video games on. Windows is still the best option there.

Re: Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

#132

Post by CivBase »

Why Firefox? Chrome has a bigger market share to take. Edge is built on Chromium now so it should be a more familiar environment for Chrome users. Microsoft is in a position to compete with many of the integration features that make Chrome appealing to many users. Surely it makes more sense to target Chrome than Firefox.

Re: Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

#133

Post by endemic »

SmellyGeekBoy wrote: post #25

One of the many reasons why I hate Windows 10. Just get out of my way and let me use my computer how I want. I'd put on my "smug Linux user" hat but to be honest my distro of choice (Ubuntu) has Amazon search integrated by default. The only saving grace is that it can be easily, completely, and permanently removed with just a couple of commands. Seriously considering a Macbook for my next computer at this point.

Apple isn't without their own problems: https://imgur.com/a/PFRlJMB

Not as egregious as what MS is doing, but I set my default browser away from Safari on purpose, thanks.

Re: Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

#134

Post by neogodless »

ForHackernews wrote: post #65

Why are they attacking Firefox instead of Chrome? It seems really weird.

I came here to discuss this. It probably doesn't need to be said, but the brains behind this marketing don't understand their users... assuming they are actually targeting Firefox.

My guess would be that Firefox users mostly consist of people that know enough to not use Chrome or a Microsoft browser. And an ad won't change that. Chrome is the new IE as far as the default that everyone uses, so it would make sense if they targeted them.

"Get the same browsing experience with better integration with Windows." (That's probably not true, but this is advertising, which never stopped anyone.)

Re: Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

#135

Post by mr_overalls »

zchrykng wrote: post #64
alxlaz wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's certainly shady, given that they own both the product they're advertising and the medium they're advertising it through. I don't expect that I'll be able to get them to give me a top spot for an ad saying "Concerned about Microsoft's tracking policy? Mozilla Firefox is here", or "Still using Edge? Why not just get the original -- Google Chrome is here'.

No, but Google would be more than happy to put the later on their main search page. Not really any different. Microsoft controls Windows and uses it to advance corporate goals. Google owns their search interface and uses it to advance their corporate goals.

Google is free - ads are expected. Microsoft is a paid product. Completely different situations.

Re: Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

#136

Post by ocdtrekkie »

moomin wrote: post #21

Reminder that “New” Microsoft Edge is just Chrone with different spyware. So yeah, I’m still using Firefox thanks.

FWIW, Microsoft did add tracking prevention tools much like Firefox and Safari have. So they did add the common browser feature Google refuses to integrate. Privacy-minded people who insist on using Chrome should switch to Edge over Chrome.

But I refuse to contribute to the Chromium monoculture.

Re: Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

#137

Post by ocdtrekkie »

zulban wrote: post #67
ChicagoDave wrote: post #60

I think Microsoft has every right to suggest their own browser. Chrome does it. Firefox does it. You have to opt out of the reminder. So you have to opt out of Start menu ads. Big deal. Can we focus on something slighty less trivial please?

Firefox is a browser. Chrome is a browser. Windows is an operating system. Consider having a closer look at the IE anti-trust cases to better understand the difference.

Trying to special case an operating system as the reason this is so bad misses the point. The reason Google abuses it's home page to push Chrome is because Google controls the world's most popular home page. The reason Microsoft abuses it's operating system to push Edge is because Microsoft controls the world's most popular operating system (for desktops, anyways).

This is not about what is an OS and what is a browser (and things like Chromebooks make that line super blurry anyways). It's about monopolies using their market dominance in one category (which ever it is) to illegally expand their presence in other categories.

Re: Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

#138

Post by swebs »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #136
moomin wrote: post #21

Reminder that “New” Microsoft Edge is just Chrone with different spyware. So yeah, I’m still using Firefox thanks.

FWIW, Microsoft did add tracking prevention tools much like Firefox and Safari have. So they did add the common browser feature Google refuses to integrate. Privacy-minded people who insist on using Chrome should switch to Edge over Chrome. But I refuse to contribute to the Chromium monoculture.

No they shouldn't. They should switch to Firefox or Safari. Or at the very least Chromium (from a Linux package manager).

Re: Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

#139

Post by maweki »

endemic wrote: post #133
SmellyGeekBoy wrote: post #25

One of the many reasons why I hate Windows 10. Just get out of my way and let me use my computer how I want. I'd put on my "smug Linux user" hat but to be honest my distro of choice (Ubuntu) has Amazon search integrated by default. The only saving grace is that it can be easily, completely, and permanently removed with just a couple of commands. Seriously considering a Macbook for my next computer at this point.

Apple isn't without their own problems: https://imgur.com/a/PFRlJMB Not as egregious as what MS is doing, but I set my default browser away from Safari on purpose, thanks.

I think every browser does this. Firefox asks the same thing.

Re: Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

#140

Post by rsnor »

34679 wrote: post #43
chrisseaton wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Microsoft doing shady stuff again. Seems anything but shady? On the start menu in full sight and just explicitly suggesting their browser over Firefox. Doesn't even claim anything about either browser, just suggests theirs! Seems as honest and upfront as any advertising could be? 'Try our band of coffee' effectively.

If W10 is on 800,000,000 computers[1], and it costs each user 1 second of productivity, then every time that ad shows, Microsoft is stealing 222,222 hours of productivity from people and businesses around the world to advertise its subpar browser in an operating system they've already been compensated for. https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-says-windows-10-is-n...

I hate OS-level ads the same if not more than any other HN reader, but that's like saying we shouldn't be glancing out of the window for half a second because it would scale up to losing ~100,000 hours of productivity every day. It's a fraction of a ten-thousandth of a workday - anyone concerned with that level of optimization shouldn't be using humans to begin with.
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