The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church • Hacker News Board

Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church

#391

Post by tptacek » Sat, Feb 08, 2020, 11:13 PM UTC

jacurtis wrote: post #302

godelski wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can second this. I left over a decade ago. I've moved through four states, and probably a dozen addresses in that time. This is the first year where missionaries have not shown up at my door. I always had the same conversation with them: "Elders, I left the church for a reason and have no desire to come back. If you ever need water or to use the restroom, you are welcome to come by. I understand that what you are d…

I can third this. I left about 7 years ago. I have moved from Wisconsin, to North Carolina, to Virginia, to Texas, and then to Washington. The Mormon church managed to find me each time. (I briefly moved to Pennsylvania for work for about 6 months between living in NC and VA, and that was the one time they never found me). I have always rejected all attempts to "re-activate" me. I have never provided notice of my lea…

Is the potential forgiveness of "terrorists and Hitler" all that surprising? The story of Saul of Tarsus is at the core of Christian theology; the whole concept of the religion is sort of premised on the universal availability of forgiveness.

Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church

#392

Post by oyebenny » Sat, Feb 08, 2020, 11:14 PM UTC

WheelsAtLarge wrote: post #336

tomrod wrote: post #9

That is just what is uncovered in the investment market with one subsidiary. They also own 2% of Florida[0], huge land tracts in Argentina, Oklahoma and elsewhere, and attractive urban real estate in most major metropolises including apartment complexes in PA. They centralize donation collection of tithes and good will offerings such that about 8% stays back at congregations (based on personal observation as the fina…

Just a note on leaving the church: when you leave you leave all the people you have known all your life. Since you spend so much time in church activities fellow members become your extended family. When you leave you understand that the only reason you had contact with your extended family is because of the church. You become the lone man out. It's extremely hard to rebuild relationships outside the church. I don't…

Why do I feel like you just describe my after college graduation experience.

Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church

#393

Post by miedpo » Sat, Feb 08, 2020, 11:14 PM UTC

tzs wrote: post #220

Iwillgetby wrote: post #78

Question as a member. Would today be a good day to request that janitorial services be restored? Do I really need to clean the church's toilets once a year to get to heaven?

That's the thing I find most interesting about the Mormon church. In most other churches if you don't get into heaven your afterlife really really really sucks. They tend to be very binary--eternity in paradise, or eternity of inconceivable torture and torment. Mormon afterlife has four possible destinations: the Celestial Kingdom, the Terrestrial Kingdom, the Telestial Kingdom, and the outer darkness. The Celestial…

For a simple answer to your question (you may have answered it asked it more rhetorically, and if so, sorry), the case to convert is just that we pray about it and get an answer.

There's a lot of reasons the church's teachings are good to believe in, but it's kinda useless if God isn't saying it's right if you know what I mean.

I grew up not believing in God at all. But when it came time, I asked God, if he existed, to give me an answer. And as best as I can interpret, he did.

So yeah, that's kinda why, if you wanted to know. The reasons are extra on top of the actual question if that makes any sense :p

Hope you're having a good day.

Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church

#394

Post by prepend » Sat, Feb 08, 2020, 11:16 PM UTC

kristopolous wrote: post #202

prepend wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s lots of wisdom in old texts. Plato is 2000+ years old. Heroditus. Confucius. Rumi is almost a 1000. Beckham is a football player and isn’t known for writing down (or saying) wisdom. But I can definitely imagine people reading Marx and Darwin and Hayek 2000 years from now. Biographies and published text.

There's things just as thoughtful that were written in the past 10 years. The things you cited are famous for being famous, like some celebrity of the ages. Just like the Mona Lisa was famous for getting stolen and returned, then this was forgotten about but it remained famous, but now just because it was famous previously.

Perhaps, but this is the first time I’ve heard someone refer to Hayek as “famous for being famous.”

I’m not sure if you’re arguing that there’s nothing old that is wise. Or if people are really smart now. Or all knowledge is just repeated over and over.

I don’t think it’s very productive to argue that the Mona Lisa is the most beautiful painting. But I certainly find it pleasing and beautiful. Are there recent paintings as beautiful? Maybe, but I’m not aware of them so they don’t help me.

Maybe there are recent books as useful as Origin of Species or Republic. But I, and many others, haven’t read them so they are potentially useful if discovered and used. While objectively true is the fact that these historical books have been discovered and used.

So I’m not surprised that people find wisdom in historical books or that books that many find useful remain popular for centuries and millennia.

I don’t think this is a reason to not search for additional wisdom. And I certainly wouldn’t claim they are the ultimate in wisdom.

Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church

#395

Post by godelski » Sat, Feb 08, 2020, 11:25 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #391

jacurtis wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can third this. I left about 7 years ago. I have moved from Wisconsin, to North Carolina, to Virginia, to Texas, and then to Washington. The Mormon church managed to find me each time. (I briefly moved to Pennsylvania for work for about 6 months between living in NC and VA, and that was the one time they never found me). I have always rejected all attempts to "re-activate" me. I have never provided notice of my lea…

Is the potential forgiveness of "terrorists and Hitler" all that surprising? The story of Saul of Tarsus is at the core of Christian theology; the whole concept of the religion is sort of premised on the universal availability of forgiveness.

No it isn't surprising, but that's also not the point of the comment. If what you're taking away is "anyone can be saved" then you're __REALLY__ missing the point.

Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church

#396

Post by tptacek » Sat, Feb 08, 2020, 11:25 PM UTC

godelski wrote: post #395

tptacek wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the potential forgiveness of "terrorists and Hitler" all that surprising? The story of Saul of Tarsus is at the core of Christian theology; the whole concept of the religion is sort of premised on the universal availability of forgiveness.

No it isn't surprising, but that's also not the point of the comment. If what you're taking away is "anyone can be saved" then you're __REALLY__ missing the point.

Educate me? I'm trying to understand.

Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church

#397

Post by WillDaSilva » Sat, Feb 08, 2020, 11:27 PM UTC

tomohawk wrote: post #390

darksaints wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, but I'm pretty happy with seeking its demise. Christianity, along with the rest of the abrahamic religions, are a corrupting plague on our planet and society. That which is good about it is not unique to it, and that which is unique to it is not good. We are stagnant in our progress as humans to the degree that we still believe in it.

So, intolerance is the way forward?

Intolerance of bad ideas, not intolerance of those who hold them.

Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church

#398

Post by 0xcde4c3db » Sat, Feb 08, 2020, 11:36 PM UTC

lcall wrote: post #280

innocentoldguy wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some differences between the Law of Consecration and Communism are: 1. Nobody is forced to live the Law of Consecration. It is a personal choice and not one forced down your throat under threat of death. 2. Under the Law of Consecration, as practiced under Joseph Smith, families would define their needs rather than have their needs dictated. 3. Communism is about power and control. The Law of Consecration is about in…

I wonder why this and those with similar comments were downvoted. I have spent some time studying both systems (at 2 universities) and observing over decades, and it looks accurate to me. The law of consecration, doctrinally, in all the source documents and major attempts to practice it, is voluntary, as is any true Christian behavior. I learned some things about communism, read a number of books about individuals' e…

As often happens in discussions of political and economic systems, you're comparing an idealized concept of one side to the history of the other side; of course the history side looks worse.

ETA: it occurs to me that there's a parallel here to the fundamental attribution error: my favorite system has flaws because its fundamental principles haven't been fully realized, while other systems have flaws because their fundamental principles are bad. Anyway, it's a pattern to watch out for.

Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church

#399

Post by benatkin » Sat, Feb 08, 2020, 11:36 PM UTC

oyebenny wrote: post #392

WheelsAtLarge wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a note on leaving the church: when you leave you leave all the people you have known all your life. Since you spend so much time in church activities fellow members become your extended family. When you leave you understand that the only reason you had contact with your extended family is because of the church. You become the lone man out. It's extremely hard to rebuild relationships outside the church. I don't…

Why do I feel like you just describe my after college graduation experience.

That's true, as someone who both quit the mormon church, and went was an undergrad for five years and got the full college experience. Right now I actually feel more connected to mormons I grew up with than the college friends, though I have more college friends on Facebook.

In case you're wondering if I really quit the mormon church: note that I'm still calling them mormons when the mormons stopped calling themselves mormons. https://www.sltrib.com/news/2018/08/16/lds-church-wants-ever...

Edit: and if you're wondering if I really graduated college - I have no idea where my diploma is and if I've ever seen it. I owed the school a few hundred bucks and didn't get it when I walked, but perhaps I got it when I paid off my account - I don't remember.

Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church

#400

Post by catalogia » Sat, Feb 08, 2020, 11:41 PM UTC

tomohawk wrote: post #390

darksaints wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, but I'm pretty happy with seeking its demise. Christianity, along with the rest of the abrahamic religions, are a corrupting plague on our planet and society. That which is good about it is not unique to it, and that which is unique to it is not good. We are stagnant in our progress as humans to the degree that we still believe in it.

So, intolerance is the way forward?

It's not intolerant to state that you do not believe in somebody else's religion. Nothing above is even "disparaging", even that fairy tale remark. It's not disparaging to state that, without good evidence, you believe fantastic stories from thousands of years ago to be fairy tails.