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The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church

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Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church

#201

Post by Fellshard »

camhart wrote: post #86
gherkinnn wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find a lot of people invoke Christ, but have little to do with his teachings. Amusingly, his ideas align more with beliefs held by “the young left” than by “the old right”. (Yesyes, bad terms but you know what I mean) And yet the real-world allegiances are inverted.

You're missing the role of agency (or choice) in your evaluation. Forcing someone to do something vs someone choosing to do it of their own accord is quite different.

Figures you're being downvoted to pieces, when this is among the key aspects of Jesus' teachings. Indeed, the entire Sermon on the Mount is centered around the centrality of the /heart/ as the seat of sin, and the thoughts and intentions of the /heart/ as being the fount from which actions stem. Individual sin is what Jesus demanded repentance from; there is no 'collective sin' in Scripture, though groups of people with common sin may be punished collectively, e.g. the time of the Judges, Israel's captivity, etc.

Given the 'young left' is a collectivist ideology, which seeks to institute a form of 'ancestral sin' - people being responsible for their parents' and grandparents' wrongs, etc. - and which has made physical wealth and attributes the sole measurements of moral integrity, being a purely secular worldview - it is not in any way compatible with the teachings of Christ.

But people don't like to hear that. Self-righteousness is a potent drug, something else Christ taught about quite regularly. :)

Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church

#202

Post by kristopolous »

prepend wrote: post #164
xtracto wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an atheist I love reading these passages.. it is amazing how people in this day and age are trying to find "meanings" from a book full of the stories of one person... who lived 2000+ years ago.. imagine if someone tried to find meaning in Beckhams biography 2000 years from now...

There’s lots of wisdom in old texts. Plato is 2000+ years old. Heroditus. Confucius. Rumi is almost a 1000. Beckham is a football player and isn’t known for writing down (or saying) wisdom. But I can definitely imagine people reading Marx and Darwin and Hayek 2000 years from now. Biographies and published text.

There's things just as thoughtful that were written in the past 10 years.

The things you cited are famous for being famous, like some celebrity of the ages.

Just like the Mona Lisa was famous for getting stolen and returned, then this was forgotten about but it remained famous, but now just because it was famous previously.

Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church

#203

Post by knicholes »

weare138 wrote: post #82
camhart wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think it's more difficult for a rich person? Does giving a tithe encourage or discourage the behaviors that make it difficult to make it to "Heaven"? Think on it.

Jesus never advocated giving tithes or even churches for that matter.

What about The Widow's Mite or

Matthew 22:21 Jesus said "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and to God the things that are God's."?

Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church

#204

Post by curiousgeorgio »

Robin_Message wrote: post #184
gwilliams wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That could hardly be farther from the truth. The church does have extrabiblical volumes of scripture, which also testify of Christ and go into more depth, but every doctrine of the church is in harmony with the Old and New Testaments. Members believe it is only by faith in Christ and by good works that they can be saved.

IANATheologian but I think many if not most Christian denominations teach that people are saved exclusively by faith. Works are interpreted as a sign of faith in some Protestant denominations, which lead to the concept of the Protestant work ethic.

IAANATheologian (I am also not a theologian), but I suppose those other Christian denominations conveniently skipped chapter 2 of James, where it says:

"What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead."

Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church

#206

Post by godelski »

mml wrote: post #175
weare138 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the Kingdom of God." -Jesus Matthew 19:24

It’s “the eye of the needle”. It was a very narrow gate into Jerusalem, which camels had difficulty traversing.

And it is hard for a rich man to pass through because they have many possessions.

These are things you can't take to heaven. These are things you should not covet. This and many other of Jesus's teaching demonstrate that to be holy and good is to focus not on the material, but on helping your fellow man. There's nothing saying you will get barred from heaven if you're rich. But there's plenty that says you should give away your wealth and spend all your time helping others. You know, kinda like what Jesus did...

Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church

#207

Post by innocentoldguy »

wincy wrote: post #12

So I’m officially a Mormon but am not a tithing member or active at all. I’ve asked some of my Mormon friends about this and their response is basically “well of course they are, how else would they build Zion in the city of Independence, Missouri?”. They’ve said that’s where the latter days will be spent a long time ago, and they’re preparing to make that a reality “when the time comes”. They have a form of socialis…

Some differences between the Law of Consecration and Communism are:

1. Nobody is forced to live the Law of Consecration. It is a personal choice and not one forced down your throat under threat of death.

2. Under the Law of Consecration, as practiced under Joseph Smith, families would define their needs rather than have their needs dictated.

3. Communism is about power and control. The Law of Consecration is about individually loving your neighbors.

Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church

#208

Post by jquery »

hunter-gatherer wrote: post #185
tomrod wrote: post #9

That is just what is uncovered in the investment market with one subsidiary. They also own 2% of Florida[0], huge land tracts in Argentina, Oklahoma and elsewhere, and attractive urban real estate in most major metropolises including apartment complexes in PA. They centralize donation collection of tithes and good will offerings such that about 8% stays back at congregations (based on personal observation as the fina…

> It's an organization which does not allow you to leave with your dignity intact. This is definitely not true. As a Utah native and one who left for my own reasons and still has family in the church, I would say that this statement is completely false. The Mormon church does not practice nor endorse any doctrine relating to shunning or harassment. Just because you left with some personality conflicts and bad terms w…

This was my experience as well (Utah native). I did not experience any shunning when I left, nor have others in my extended family.

Any shunning I have seen was due to other factors than merely leaving, such as the reasons behind leaving (one of my cousins was shunned for drug dealing and running from the law, not for leaving).

The Mormon church has a lot of experience with people leaving and appears to handle it pretty well in general. Of course leaving a religion is a hard and often agonizing decision and is painful personally, and people sometimes project these feelings onto others.

Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church

#209

Post by mattrp »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #177
mattrp wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally I’m with you but in the case of religion, I think it’s a bad idea to tax one’s belief in God. The key issue here is the state isn’t supreme... just because there is untaxed wealth doesn’t mean it automatically belongs to the government... especially if we believe in separation of church and state.

Not providing an exemption for donations is not taxing one’s beliefs.

So I guess we shouldn’t provide military service exemptions to conscientious objectors either. You either have separation of church and state or you don’t. As a practical matter I’m unaware of any church organization even the Mormons who are ‘killing’ it with the exemption. Very few people give 1% of their income to their church much less a full tithe or anything more than tithe despite the favorable tax treatment. I submit you’re angry about organized religion, the size of the investment fund or both... but neither are a justification to change separation of church and state.

Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church

#210

Post by curiousgeorgio »

adaisadais wrote: post #139
x1oqw wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It always surprises me that wealthy churches pretend to take Christ seriously, when Jesus was not very fond of amassing money. I get why the churches do it (of course they don't believe in Christ), but why do the exploited masses believe them?

A lot of what the Mormon Church teaches is not based on the teachings of Jesus Christ. Mormonism and Christianity are two separate things much like Christianity and Judaism are separate.

"A lot of what's in the SGML spec isn't in the XML spec. SGML and XML are two separate things much like XML and HTML are separate."
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