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The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church

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Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church

#181

Post by _Codemonkeyism »

gherkinnn wrote: post #42
x1oqw wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It always surprises me that wealthy churches pretend to take Christ seriously, when Jesus was not very fond of amassing money. I get why the churches do it (of course they don't believe in Christ), but why do the exploited masses believe them?

I find a lot of people invoke Christ, but have little to do with his teachings. Amusingly, his ideas align more with beliefs held by “the young left” than by “the old right”. (Yesyes, bad terms but you know what I mean) And yet the real-world allegiances are inverted.

Many "Christians" follow more Moses than Jesus - and ignor Jesus teachings - and would better be called Mosians. Though amassing gold was also not Mosianic.

Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church

#182

Post by jshevek »

randallsquared wrote: post #129
samdoidge wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this starts with the assumption that what people like me went through is trivial. I did not read it as that, and don't believe that is what his statement conveys.

The part "it's sometimes not one-sided", taken literally and minimally, tells us only that there are some people whose own actions reduce their dignity. Given a sample population of any size, this provides no additional information about the topic under discussion: there are some asinine people everywhere. What information could the poster have been conveying, then, if not nothing? In context, I think it's clear that…

> In context, I think it's clear that the intended update for readers was to raise the possibility that tomrod's indignities were self-inflicted.

Not at all. You are assuming another's thought process and motive, and doing so without any charity.

Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church

#183

Post by umvi »

driverdan wrote: post #126
wincy wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re preparing for the end of the world. They call themselves “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints”, and take that moniker seriously.

That argument doesn't make sense. If TEOTWAWKI happens their investments will become worthless.

Latter Day Saints don't believe TEOTW involves the destruction of the world or even of world governments. Only the "wicked" will be destroyed at the second coming. I.e. Germany and the German government will likely still exist and operate for some amount of years after the second coming, but all wicked Germans will die off. The remaining Germans are all good people and will all eventually be converted to true Christianity (including good atheists)

Nations will slowly be absorbed into Zion, a communist utopian nation ruled by Jesus Christ himself and the world will see unprecedented prosperity for 1000 years.

Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church

#184

Post by Robin_Message »

gwilliams wrote: post #174
adaisadais wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of what the Mormon Church teaches is not based on the teachings of Jesus Christ. Mormonism and Christianity are two separate things much like Christianity and Judaism are separate.

That could hardly be farther from the truth. The church does have extrabiblical volumes of scripture, which also testify of Christ and go into more depth, but every doctrine of the church is in harmony with the Old and New Testaments. Members believe it is only by faith in Christ and by good works that they can be saved.

IANATheologian but I think many if not most Christian denominations teach that people are saved exclusively by faith. Works are interpreted as a sign of faith in some Protestant denominations, which lead to the concept of the Protestant work ethic.

Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church

#185

Post by hunter-gatherer »

tomrod wrote: post #9

That is just what is uncovered in the investment market with one subsidiary. They also own 2% of Florida[0], huge land tracts in Argentina, Oklahoma and elsewhere, and attractive urban real estate in most major metropolises including apartment complexes in PA. They centralize donation collection of tithes and good will offerings such that about 8% stays back at congregations (based on personal observation as the fina…

> It's an organization which does not allow you to leave with your dignity intact.

This is definitely not true. As a Utah native and one who left for my own reasons and still has family in the church, I would say that this statement is completely false. The Mormon church does not practice nor endorse any doctrine relating to shunning or harassment. Just because you left with some personality conflicts and bad terms with members doesn't mean anything. Statements like these generally do no good for anyone, and only further radicalize opposing views instead of urging people to engage in an meaningful discussion.

Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church

#186

Post by sturgill »

tomrod wrote: post #160
sturgill wrote: post #107

Can you imagine the criticism if the investment arm was losing money? The Church does amazing work providing resources during crises. I’ve personally cut trees off of people’s houses with chainsaws provided by the Church and given buckets of sanitation supplies when hurricanes swept through Florida. There is always a tension in “what do you spend now and what do you invest for later” but I honesty feel like the Churc…

> I’m pretty comfortable assuming he would have made more money in his life had he not accepted a calling to full-time ministry. Two comments. [1] The Mormon church is a corporation sole, meaning presently Nelson is the sole controller of all assets. He could reasonably set up his family for life with beneficial contacts and contracts. That is worth more than (now probably expired) intellectual property associated wi…

I don’t know enough about the legal structure of [1] to have an informed opinion. Contacts and contracts are always the gift to children of connected parents. I hope to give the same to my kids... ;)

I’m sure it happens as it does in any family (hello Biden!) but I’m not convinced it’s more prevalent in the Church than any other organization of people. It’s an interesting thought, but I’m not sure how prevalent it is.

I have met several general authorities in various capacities (including Bishop Waddell who was quoted in the article). They are humans and suspect to all the frailties that entails, but they have all been serious minded people who take their roles as stewards seriously. I’m sure some amount of fraud or nepotism happens, but I also have a religious view that suggests that whatever wrong is acquired in this life will be corrected in the next.

I have known people who have done things with Church money that they shouldn’t have. All of them were excommunicated for the same. The Church takes its financial stewardship seriously with required audits at all levels.

I agree with the first half of [2] but not the complaint that follows. It was only recently that more members of the Church lived outside the US. As the Church has grown out of Utah and throughout the US (and outside world) they have done a better job of calling people from more areas.

I think this is part of human behavior as well. It can be frustrating, but it’s hard for someone in Salt Lake to know I could serve in capacity X without knowing me personally. Again, it’s getting better as genera leaders travel more and get to know local leaders, but it’s always easiest to think of the person you know.

This happens in business as well: a new CEO brings “his/her team” — I’d like to see less of it (and fully expect to as the Church continues to grow globally).

Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church

#188

Post by cultus »

Osiris wrote: post #136
cultus wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are stealing from everyone. Churches do not pay taxes. This is supposed to be contingent on not engaging in politics and actually acting like a non-profit.

Some people might be able to claim coercion because tithing is required to participate in certain ceremonies, but I don't see how that's stealing (forced, against one's will).

I meant that it is stealing from the taxpayer.

Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church

#189

Post by ashton314 »

Here is one statement that the Church of Jesus Christ put out about their finances, which addresses several of the complaints/questions posited here:

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/church-fina...

I don’t see any incongruity with a church that teaches its members to save to likewise have a large savings fund. It’s not like they’re just hoarding money: the Church actively donates billions of dollars to world-wide humanitarian projects. For a religion that believes in the second coming of Jesus Christ and a worldwide crisis preceding that, it only makes sense for them to save so that they can continue to aid people of and not of their faith during that time.

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