Global warming has begun to make Norway warmer and wetter • Hacker News Board

Re: Global warming has begun to make Norway warmer and wetter

#131

Post by dang » Fri, Feb 07, 2020, 9:48 PM UTC

groby_b wrote: post #77

Jesus fuck. I was in Svalbard 25 years ago. The change is absolutely mindblowing. I really thought I was somewhat informed about the effects, but what happened there is way beyond anything you get from reading papers. But sure, HN, go ahead, discuss if it's the right format/UX to deliver the message that we're fucked. Heaven forbid we talk about the message itself.

> But sure, HN, go ahead, discuss if it's the right format/UX to deliver the message that we're fucked. Heaven forbid we talk about the message itself.

Please don't contribute to the problem by going off topic in this way—it just adds more of what you're complaining about. (As, alas, does this comment.)

Re: Global warming has begun to make Norway warmer and wetter

#132

Post by breput » Fri, Feb 07, 2020, 9:48 PM UTC

Norway's sovereign wealth fund is over $1 trillion (with a T), which is all from petroleum profits. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Pension_Fund_of_Nor...

They should pledge at least 75% of that fund for CO2 removal technology R&D and other mitigation solutions.

Re: Global warming has begun to make Norway warmer and wetter

#133

Post by lopmotr » Fri, Feb 07, 2020, 9:49 PM UTC

leto_ii wrote: post #106

dghughes wrote: post #37

I'm certainly on the climate change team (if that's what you call it). But are articles like this good or bad? When confronting climate change deniers the standard response is "weather is not climate". Saying it's hot today or cold today isn't an indication of climate change. It's what occurs over hundreds of years but especially the last 150 years. It seems we are sending mixed signals saying that one day or a decad…

> Anecdotal evidence isn't very reliable. True. Yet, as climate change accelerates it's absolutely reasonable to expect that we will be able to sense its effects in our daily lives. I also have quite a number of personal observations that point to the idea that the planet is warming up. On the one hand I try to remain rational and say that this is a long-term trend, but on the other I'm thinking: holy crap, things ar…

No we shouldn't! You don't give up the principles of science just to expedite your political ideals. If you were going to do that, why bother with science in the first place? Just declare it so and shout it until everyone believes you!

I have memories of world 30 years ago being hotter than it is today. I don't credit it to "global cooling" because I'm not that silly. You shouldn't be either. You'll never notice a degree C of average temperature change. You regulate your body's environment's temperature with clothing, housing, heating, etc. And it varies much more dramatically hour-by-hour than over decades. If you simply changed your bedtime a little, you could experience global warming or cooling of the same magnitude as what actually happened.

Re: Global warming has begun to make Norway warmer and wetter

#134

Post by euix » Fri, Feb 07, 2020, 9:49 PM UTC

The thing about climate change is that some small proportion of the population, probably elites, farsighted and lucky will likely benefit from it, in the form of profiting off the weakest and more vulnerable by providing some sort of assistance or accommodation, from new industries that will arise to accommodate or from arbitrage on land that will become uninhabitable versus that which will become newly inhabitable.

It's a massive structural shift in the earth's environment. So I wonder if not for some they happily welcome the change as an opportunity to seize the commanding heights of the future.

If climate change cannot be avoided, than the next best thing is to get ahead of it in terms of advantages over competitors in terms of technology, territory, products and services that the newly impoverished and vulnerable will require to survive.

I wouldn't be surprised if this was the real thinking behind billionaire oil tycoons or climate deniers. They see it as fundamentally political as opposed to scientific in nature.

Re: Global warming has begun to make Norway warmer and wetter

#135

Post by longtom » Fri, Feb 07, 2020, 9:49 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #91

longtom wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why modest?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Modest_Proposal

How is this relevant? This would require action on part of the poor. What I am talking about is using technology that is already being developed. Namely, bio weapons with antidotes that is marketed to the rich. I'd do it in a heartbeat if I was a billionaire. Clearly one cannot talk about this because it is true.

Re: Global warming has begun to make Norway warmer and wetter

#136

Post by coldcode » Fri, Feb 07, 2020, 9:50 PM UTC

Vervious wrote: post #20

I think this is one of those instances where the UX makes it better. It forced me to slow down, parse each line one at a time, read line-by-line, image-by-image, and let the gravity sink in. I would have just skimmed it if it were a text article with a photo gallery, to no great effect.

I loved the process as you could think about what you were seeing. Also to be able to read without annoying ads or extra clutter was wonderful.

Re: Global warming has begun to make Norway warmer and wetter

#137

Post by dang » Fri, Feb 07, 2020, 9:50 PM UTC

KineticLensman wrote: post #11

I find it really depressing that as I write this comment, the other top-most comments are complaining about the article's UX. Meanwhile we are radically altering the natural environment. As the TFA spells out, so superbly.

This is a standard phenomenon in discussion forums. The fix is to post something on-topic, without referencing the off-topicness. If you post by complaining about what's off topic, that will then get upvoted even more, turning the thread into second-order meta off-topicness. See also https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...

Moderation can help, because once we see it happening in a thread, we downweight the off-topic subthreads. But ultimately the only fix for bad discussion is good discussion, and discussion about bad discussion (even about how much you dislike it) is bad discussion.

Re: Global warming has begun to make Norway warmer and wetter

#138

Post by moralsupply » Fri, Feb 07, 2020, 9:50 PM UTC

breput wrote: post #132

Norway's sovereign wealth fund is over $1 trillion (with a T), which is all from petroleum profits. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Pension_Fund_of_Nor... They should pledge at least 75% of that fund for CO2 removal technology R&D and other mitigation solutions.

Assuming that CO2 is the actual cause of global warming...

Re: Global warming has begun to make Norway warmer and wetter

#139

Post by dang » Fri, Feb 07, 2020, 9:50 PM UTC

criley2 wrote: post #18

KineticLensman wrote: post #11

I find it really depressing that as I write this comment, the other top-most comments are complaining about the article's UX. Meanwhile we are radically altering the natural environment. As the TFA spells out, so superbly.

Well, this is HackerNews, started by a technology company accelerator focused largely on web applications, for which UX is a top line discussion point. The point being, the takes here are pretty on-brand.

No, Hacker News is for stories that are intellectually interesting. Please see https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

Re: Global warming has begun to make Norway warmer and wetter

#140

Post by yibg » Fri, Feb 07, 2020, 9:50 PM UTC

legitster wrote: post #25

I'm disappointed by the typical Hacker News folks complaining about the presentation format. This isn't the target demographic, and I applaud trying different approaches to convey the seriousness of these issues. The kinds of people who just want a spreadsheet and a PDF report are already bought in on the ideas. While I find the format a bit cinematic for my taste, I can't help but respect their efforts to drive home…

There are very few submissions that doesn’t have someone complain about something. HN crowd tend to be critical. Might be harsh sometimes but not necessarily a bad thing. If you want your ideas poked full of holes, submit it here.