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Global warming has begun to make Norway warmer and wetter

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Re: Global warming has begun to make Norway warmer and wetter

#121

Post by Amarok »

dghughes wrote: post #37

I'm certainly on the climate change team (if that's what you call it). But are articles like this good or bad? When confronting climate change deniers the standard response is "weather is not climate". Saying it's hot today or cold today isn't an indication of climate change. It's what occurs over hundreds of years but especially the last 150 years. It seems we are sending mixed signals saying that one day or a decad…

Demagoguery has a better track record than science at influencing people's actions.

For example, Dr Semmelweis who literally prooved hand washing saved lives. He was mocked and committed to an asylum by his colleagues, where he ironically died from infection after a beating.

Re: Global warming has begun to make Norway warmer and wetter

#122

Post by LyndsySimon »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #115

Assume there is no collective action in the next century. What next? I actually only think things will be done once insurance companies start accounting for costs here.

Regardless of whether one believes “collective action” is desirable on a global I don’t think it’s possible. I think our policy and planning focus should be on adaptation over trying to fight against the changes that appear to be occurring.

Human beings adapt. We are now a technological species, and can alter our surroundings to quite a large degree. As things change, we should be working toward improving lives - our own and those of others - and better positioning ourselves to exploit the advantages that our future holds.

Re: Global warming has begun to make Norway warmer and wetter

#123

Post by hellofunk »

dghughes wrote: post #37

I'm certainly on the climate change team (if that's what you call it). But are articles like this good or bad? When confronting climate change deniers the standard response is "weather is not climate". Saying it's hot today or cold today isn't an indication of climate change. It's what occurs over hundreds of years but especially the last 150 years. It seems we are sending mixed signals saying that one day or a decad…

> Saying it's hot today or cold today isn't an indication of climate change.It's what occurs over hundreds of years but especially the last 150 years.

> It seems we are sending mixed signals saying that one day or a decade shows climate change.

The article isn't making these points at all; it definitely seemed to be looking at a much longer picture, at least that was my takeaway.

Re: Global warming has begun to make Norway warmer and wetter

#124

Post by cagenut »

dghughes wrote: post #37

I'm certainly on the climate change team (if that's what you call it). But are articles like this good or bad? When confronting climate change deniers the standard response is "weather is not climate". Saying it's hot today or cold today isn't an indication of climate change. It's what occurs over hundreds of years but especially the last 150 years. It seems we are sending mixed signals saying that one day or a decad…

People understand things through stories, narratives. All of which are oversimplifications. Always. Therefore, for any given popular one, you can always be the contrarian well-actually guy. You can always point out the broader inconsistencies, and you can always find a gotcha or implied hypocrisy somewhere. When all else fails you can always fall back on tone-policing like you did here.

I know you're not practicing active "denial", but consider the degree to which you chose to be a headwind or a tailwind. Tone policing is being a headwind.

Re: Global warming has begun to make Norway warmer and wetter

#125

Post by yibg »

koheripbal wrote: post #104
CuriousSkeptic wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One way to approach this perhaps is to look at emissions per capita. Norway, as an example, is a way bigger offender (or at least has been, haven’t check recent data) than China by this metric. And it _is_ a political problem at this point. You cant really demand change from people around you if you’re not prepared to do the same yourself.

I think a more useful metric is per unit of GDP . ...because then it becomes an efficiency metric. "How much wealth can we create with X amount of CO2".

but then very poor countries will never be able to get to the development level of the rich countries because they’ll be energy limited. Buying a car (even if electric) could push them over the quota. Where as folks in the west can continue driving their giant SUVs.

Re: Global warming has begun to make Norway warmer and wetter

#126

Post by tsieling »

Vervious wrote: post #20

I think this is one of those instances where the UX makes it better. It forced me to slow down, parse each line one at a time, read line-by-line, image-by-image, and let the gravity sink in. I would have just skimmed it if it were a text article with a photo gallery, to no great effect.

Totally agree. I sent this to a few clients noting 'when we talk about digital storytelling, this is a good example'.

Re: Global warming has begun to make Norway warmer and wetter

#127

Post by SlowRobotAhead »

lopmotr wrote: post #80
legitster wrote: post #25

I'm disappointed by the typical Hacker News folks complaining about the presentation format. This isn't the target demographic, and I applaud trying different approaches to convey the seriousness of these issues. The kinds of people who just want a spreadsheet and a PDF report are already bought in on the ideas. While I find the format a bit cinematic for my taste, I can't help but respect their efforts to drive home…

But what is the seriousness of these issues? We're inundated with articles pointing out small unimportant changes and unquantified waffle about serious future changes. But never any actual predictions of global disaster. What's the expected cost in money or lives? Nobody has a clue beyond "catastrophe", whatever that means. I saw one estimate for the economic cost to Canada but it was so low that the citizens could a…

> Otherwise you're only conveying your personal subjective feeling.

Well that can’t be right; it would turn the entire topic of climate change on its head.

Re: Global warming has begun to make Norway warmer and wetter

#129

Post by eloff »

koheripbal wrote: post #102
deanclatworthy wrote: post #69

What I have found more frustrating than those in denial of climate change lately, is those who deny responsibility. That the real problem is in other countries. India. China. America. Little old X in Europe can't possible be the ones that need to sort it out. Therefore there's no point changing our habits. I feel a little hopeless in these discussions. I have little hope for change. I cannot argue against the fact th…

The only way to combat a Tragedy of the Commons problem is through collective action. Unilateral changes actually have a net negative impact because other parties simply consume more (CO2 in this case).

> Unilateral changes actually have a net negative impact because other parties simply consume more (CO2 in this case).

I fail to see your logic. If many people consume less petroleum maybe the price goes down and others consume more, but I don't see how they're going to consume more than what was the state of things in the first place.

Honestly it seems like a shallow rationalization to avoid taking personal responsibility for your actions. That might sound harsh but I'm a firm believer in extreme ownership as espoused by Jocko Willink. I'm allergic to excuses and rationalizations.

Re: Global warming has begun to make Norway warmer and wetter

#130

Post by jariel »

This is definitely not scientific and is effectively misrepresentative.

"But it is frightening just how much a few tenths of a degree can change the seafloor. The changes in the ocean are massive." It's misleading to pursue this idea that tiny changes in temperature, which fluctuate up and down as well, are somehow the primary drivers of such things. Such changes happen constantly, all over the ocean.

Species of moths and insects come and go, and sometimes cause what we perceive as destruction. This may be due to a variety of factors.

I think what happens in such situations, is when you take a kernel of truth (like climate change), that also happens to be emotional for many people, they can easily turn anything anecdotal into evidence to support their view.

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