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Microsoft: No GPLv3 Software for Windows Phone and Xbox Apps.

jan.wildeboer.net

51–60 of 134 posts

Re: Microsoft: No GPLv3 Software for Windows Phone and Xbox Apps.

#51
post #38
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because freedom also means freedom to use my code and keep it to yourself if you want to. There isn't any corruption in that. Tons of software here are using bsd/mit licensed code and not releasing their change, that has nothing to do with corruption (or you don't understand what corruption is, go read a definition). Using the GPL means you're free to use my code ... As long as the result is under gpl too. You lose y…

You can modify GPL code and keep it to yourself. What you can't do is modify it and distribute the resultant binary without also releasing the modified source.

That's the case I was implying, but you're right that my post wasn't clear enough on this so I edited it.

Re: Microsoft: No GPLv3 Software for Windows Phone and Xbox Apps.

#52
post #47
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because freedom also means freedom to use my code and keep it to yourself if you want to. There isn't any corruption in that. Tons of software here are using bsd/mit licensed code and not releasing their change, that has nothing to do with corruption (or you don't understand what corruption is, go read a definition). Using the GPL means you're free to use my code ... As long as the result is under gpl too. You lose y…

The GPL does _NOT_ prevent redistribution, please don't spread more incorrect information. It prevents _redistribution without redistribution of source_. You're still free to get GPL code, change it yourself, and never release it again. Licenses like the AGPL were created in part because of this problem; some folks think that, morally speaking, code running on a server behaves like distributed code, and should be ava…

Where in my message did I say it prevented redistribution ? Can you quote the sentence that made you understand that ? (this is a serious question)

It's not what I meant, and I don't thing it's what I've written either. If anything, it actually forces redistribution in case some might not want to (when you release a binary but want the sources to remain yours).

Re: Microsoft: No GPLv3 Software for Windows Phone and Xbox Apps.

#53

They aren't prohibiting "Free Software", they are prohibiting software that is under a license that requires the distributor to pass certain rights along to the recipient. Hence GPL like licenses that require distribution of source code, and that you grant redistribution rights to everyone you distribute it to are being explicitly prohibited. (And in fairness I can see why those licenses would cause problems for Micr…

GPL and BSD are both mechanisms to promote freedom. One is the freedom of a bill of rights, the other is the freedom of anarchy.

Re: Microsoft: No GPLv3 Software for Windows Phone and Xbox Apps.

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

cosgroveb: Don't like the terms of an author's library? Go write your own then. jedsmith: I really hate this attitude. Isn't the point of the Internet to bring developers together to work on things? Can't we put our collective capabilities toward improving things instead of rewriting them from scratch simply because they're not our favorite license or favorite language? Gnote springs to mind. I really can't see what…

Firstly, thank you for taking the time to disagree with something in a manner that I can read. I voted you up just for that. > I think you are taking it out of context. Edit: Oh, okay, on third read I see what you mean. I stand by my comment, though: sure, he says that the license doesn't take away your freedom, and implies that since you're free to rewrite your own, you are still free. How is that freedom to do what…

The issue here is you disagree with FSF over the meaning of the word free. Don't worry this is a common occurrence! To RMS free means freedom to use software without violating his "golden rule." RMS believes that if a neighbor wants to use software you are using you should be able to give it to him. Just as you would neighborly share flour or a rake.

I am not going to debate RMSs ethical philosophy, I just want to point out that this is the freedom GPL gives you. If you use GPL software you will never be in the position where you can't share it with you neighbor. If some wants to use it in proprietary software they cannot, because if they did they would be unable to then share it with their neighbor. Thus, the GPL is consistent with RMSs ethical stance.

However, as you have pointed out definitions of free and freedom vary. For you GPL does not free but rather chains you up; virally spreading to other work you would like to keep private. Thus, you are prevented from using GPL software and feel less free.

Freedom is a tricky word.

Re: Microsoft: No GPLv3 Software for Windows Phone and Xbox Apps.

#55
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're probably just trolling, but it needs to be said every time: The freedom that the GPL takes away is the freedom to bring down the system. It keeps people in check and prevents corruption. If you enjoy the freedoms of MIT and BSD style licenses - why do you complain about the GPL? It seems that it only takes "freedoms" away that you don't appear to be interested in anyways?

I feel the same way about the GPL, in that it dictates very strong boundaries about what can and cannot be done with the code you are distributing. I don't personally feel that the tradeoff is acceptable to achieve a goal of preventing corruption, as you say, and it can be argued that the license indeed does prevent many freedoms to do what you will. If I write software and distribute it as open-source on the Interne…

The Free Software movement is a religious movement and the GPL is an expression of their belief system. See my comment above and:

http://blog.hackthology.com/interpreting-the-free-software-m...

Re: Microsoft: No GPLv3 Software for Windows Phone and Xbox Apps.

#57
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not going to comment on whether GPL style licenses actually have the effect of promoting freedom like they say, but I don't see at all how they take it away. An author is free to write code and distribute it under the GPL. Likewise anyone else is free to fork it, or use it in their own codebase so long as they honor the terms of the license . How does that take away anyone's freedom? Don't like the terms of an au…

The problem is that nobody actually knows what constitutes a derivative work. Hence you have the LGPL for libraries so that you don't have to worry about linking them. The result is that nobody wants to risk tainting their work with GPL code if they're trying to make money. If it's GPL many people won't even look at it because who knows if someone who contributed a 2 line patch 10 years ago is going to come banging d…

You're not responding to the substance of my post. I said I wasn't commenting on whether or not the GPL actually promotes freedom. It just doesn't take it away. You and I are in total agreement here. If you want your code to have the widest possible distribution, use BSD/MIT licenses (I have done this). You have the freedom to do this and the existence of the GPL does not take your freedom away from you. You also have the freedom to decide not to use GPLed code.

People have a sense of entitlement WRT open source code, I think. As if it's "open source," it should be under whatever terms they want not those of the original author. I think that's why so many people bitch about copyleft licenses.

Re: Microsoft: No GPLv3 Software for Windows Phone and Xbox Apps.

#58
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Also GPL style licenses are a virus that while they promote freedom, in reality they take it away. It assumes that people are naturally untrustworthy and thus forces them to act in a way the creators of GPL see as the right way. Because of how the GPL licenses are worded, especially insane versions like the AGPL, everything they touch may be affected negatively. MIT and BSD style licenses on the other hand a…

GPL ensures freedom. Also there is a great article by Bruce Perens about why Microsoft is hostile to GPL and why they sponsor non-copyleft open source: http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/osrc/article.php/3762786/Br...

That article is too riddle errors to be great. Consider his paragraph on OOXML. He says that ODF does the same work as OOXML in 1/10th the size.

First of all, it does not do the same work. OOXML includes hundreds of pages covering spreadsheet formulas, giving mathematical definitions of them, sample input and output, and detailed descriptions. ODF omits spreadsheet formulas. ODF, as passed by ISO, barely deserves to be called a "specification", as there is virtually no chance that two people independently implementing from the spec alone would come up with interoperable documents. It is more accurately thought of as a guide to help understand the OpenOffice source code--which is what you actually would use as your spec if you were trying to write a real-world ODF application.

Second, even for those areas where they do the same work, the OOXML spec is more precise. That accounts for much of its size. For instance, consider how dates should be stored. Both ODF and OOXML list specific calendars that must be supported. In the ODF spec, this is a simple list, just giving a short informal name for each. In the OOXML spec, they give a table that gives the short informal name, but also gives the full official name, along with a complete citation to the official definition of that calendar.

Or consider password protected documents. All ODF tells you is where to store the password. (It might also say it should be hashed). OOXML covers that, but also tells you what hash formats and encryption systems must be supported, and for each of those cites the appropriate standard.

Re: Microsoft: No GPLv3 Software for Windows Phone and Xbox Apps.

#60
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Also GPL style licenses are a virus that while they promote freedom, in reality they take it away. It assumes that people are naturally untrustworthy and thus forces them to act in a way the creators of GPL see as the right way. Because of how the GPL licenses are worded, especially insane versions like the AGPL, everything they touch may be affected negatively. MIT and BSD style licenses on the other hand a…

You're probably just trolling, but it needs to be said every time: The freedom that the GPL takes away is the freedom to bring down the system. It keeps people in check and prevents corruption. If you enjoy the freedoms of MIT and BSD style licenses - why do you complain about the GPL? It seems that it only takes "freedoms" away that you don't appear to be interested in anyways?

Share-Alike licenses like the GNU GPL are excellent licenses and are worthy of consideration for whole categories of software.

What they aren't, however, is 'free' by any rational or sane definition of the word. They impose restrictions -- and carry those restrictions downstream -- on the use of the software that increases the theoretical range of people who would do things with the software. But those restrictions in and of themselves do not increase "freedom" for anyone.

Like I said, there's good reasons to choose these sorts of licenses. What I object to are the semantic games and occasionally outright lies and histrionics of GNU GPL supporters.

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