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Microsoft: No GPLv3 Software for Windows Phone and Xbox Apps.

jan.wildeboer.net

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Re: Microsoft: No GPLv3 Software for Windows Phone and Xbox Apps.

#41

Post by tspiteri »

jedsmith wrote: post #30
cosgroveb wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not going to comment on whether GPL style licenses actually have the effect of promoting freedom like they say, but I don't see at all how they take it away. An author is free to write code and distribute it under the GPL. Likewise anyone else is free to fork it, or use it in their own codebase so long as they honor the terms of the license . How does that take away anyone's freedom? Don't like the terms of an au…

> Don't like the terms of an author's library? Go write your own then. I really hate this attitude. Isn't one of the advantages of the Internet bringing developers together to work on things? Can't we put our collective capabilities toward improving things instead of rewriting them from scratch simply because they're not our favorite license or favorite language? Gnote springs to mind. Edit: Wow, three downvotes with…

cosgroveb: Don't like the terms of an author's library? Go write your own then.

jedsmith: I really hate this attitude. Isn't the point of the Internet to bring developers together to work on things? Can't we put our collective capabilities toward improving things instead of rewriting them from scratch simply because they're not our favorite license or favorite language? Gnote springs to mind.

I really can't see what this has to do with cosgroveb's comment, which is saying that a GPL program is not taking anything at all away. When you quote "Don't like .. your own then.", I think you are taking it out of context. The whole paragraph reads:

cosgroveb: How does that take away anyone's freedom? Don't like the terms of an author's library? Go write your own then.

I take this to mean that if you can't use code under the GPL license, you are exactly in the same situation as if the code is unavailable, and you are not worse off. So the GPL code has taken nothing away.

Re: Microsoft: No GPLv3 Software for Windows Phone and Xbox Apps.

#42

Post by unwind »

jedsmith wrote: post #30
cosgroveb wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not going to comment on whether GPL style licenses actually have the effect of promoting freedom like they say, but I don't see at all how they take it away. An author is free to write code and distribute it under the GPL. Likewise anyone else is free to fork it, or use it in their own codebase so long as they honor the terms of the license . How does that take away anyone's freedom? Don't like the terms of an au…

> Don't like the terms of an author's library? Go write your own then. I really hate this attitude. Isn't one of the advantages of the Internet bringing developers together to work on things? Can't we put our collective capabilities toward improving things instead of rewriting them from scratch simply because they're not our favorite license or favorite language? Gnote springs to mind. Edit: Wow, three downvotes with…

That reads a bit like "isn't the point of newspapers to distribute solutions to crossword puzzles easily?", to me.

Not trying to say that I think "the point of the Internet" is news distribution; rather that claiming that there is a single "point" to something like the Internet is wholly non-sensical, to me. It just does not compute.

And if I write and publish some code, it should be up to me what license I want to use. If other people are jealous or think it's wasteful that they can't do as they please with something I created, that really isn't my problem.

Re: Microsoft: No GPLv3 Software for Windows Phone and Xbox Apps.

#43

Post by dagw »

elehack wrote: post #24
wladimir wrote: post #18

I don't want my platform to restrict what software I can run, especially not based on license. Is there any mobile platform these days that doesn't try to be your nanny as well?

Maemo/MeeGo, but its future is, err, uncertain. WebOS might be good in that regard, but its supported development model is limited to web apps so far as I know.

Depends on what you mean by web apps. Yes, you write your apps in javascript, and build your UI in HTML5 and css, but the apps are installed and run natively on the device and there is no 'web' involved. You can also write your own plug-ins in C/C++ which you can call from javascript.

Re: Microsoft: No GPLv3 Software for Windows Phone and Xbox Apps.

#44

Post by jancona »

bitwize wrote: post #28
wladimir wrote: post #18

I don't want my platform to restrict what software I can run, especially not based on license. Is there any mobile platform these days that doesn't try to be your nanny as well?

You haven't cracked root on your Android phone yet?

There's no need to root most Android phones to install any software you want. Just go to Settings/Applications and check "Unknown sources Allow installation of non-Market applications"

AT&T (and perhaps other carriers) disable that option, but even in that case, there's a workaround that doesn't require rooting. (Google "android non-market adb".)

Re: Microsoft: No GPLv3 Software for Windows Phone and Xbox Apps.

#45

Post by jedsmith »

tspiteri wrote: post #41
jedsmith wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Don't like the terms of an author's library? Go write your own then. I really hate this attitude. Isn't one of the advantages of the Internet bringing developers together to work on things? Can't we put our collective capabilities toward improving things instead of rewriting them from scratch simply because they're not our favorite license or favorite language? Gnote springs to mind. Edit: Wow, three downvotes with…

cosgroveb: Don't like the terms of an author's library? Go write your own then. jedsmith: I really hate this attitude. Isn't the point of the Internet to bring developers together to work on things? Can't we put our collective capabilities toward improving things instead of rewriting them from scratch simply because they're not our favorite license or favorite language? Gnote springs to mind. I really can't see what…

Firstly, thank you for taking the time to disagree with something in a manner that I can read. I voted you up just for that.

> I think you are taking it out of context.

Edit: Oh, okay, on third read I see what you mean. I stand by my comment, though: sure, he says that the license doesn't take away your freedom, and implies that since you're free to rewrite your own, you are still free. How is that freedom to do what you will with the software? That's the rub. I'm free to change careers to taxidermist, too, but that's irrelevant to the issue at hand.

Re: Microsoft: No GPLv3 Software for Windows Phone and Xbox Apps.

#46

Post by jedsmith »

unwind wrote: post #42
jedsmith wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Don't like the terms of an author's library? Go write your own then. I really hate this attitude. Isn't one of the advantages of the Internet bringing developers together to work on things? Can't we put our collective capabilities toward improving things instead of rewriting them from scratch simply because they're not our favorite license or favorite language? Gnote springs to mind. Edit: Wow, three downvotes with…

That reads a bit like "isn't the point of newspapers to distribute solutions to crossword puzzles easily?", to me. Not trying to say that I think "the point of the Internet" is news distribution; rather that claiming that there is a single "point" to something like the Internet is wholly non-sensical, to me. It just does not compute. And if I write and publish some code, it should be up to me what license I want to u…

It was a poor choice of word. I agree, and have revised my remark.

Re: Microsoft: No GPLv3 Software for Windows Phone and Xbox Apps.

#47

Post by cscheid »

nolok wrote: post #26
skore wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're probably just trolling, but it needs to be said every time: The freedom that the GPL takes away is the freedom to bring down the system. It keeps people in check and prevents corruption. If you enjoy the freedoms of MIT and BSD style licenses - why do you complain about the GPL? It seems that it only takes "freedoms" away that you don't appear to be interested in anyways?

Because freedom also means freedom to use my code and keep it to yourself if you want to. There isn't any corruption in that. Tons of software here are using bsd/mit licensed code and not releasing their change, that has nothing to do with corruption (or you don't understand what corruption is, go read a definition). Using the GPL means you're free to use my code ... As long as the result is under gpl too. You lose y…

The GPL does _NOT_ prevent redistribution, please don't spread more incorrect information. It prevents _redistribution without redistribution of source_. You're still free to get GPL code, change it yourself, and never release it again.

Licenses like the AGPL were created in part because of this problem; some folks think that, morally speaking, code running on a server behaves like distributed code, and should be available. But for example: you're absolutely allowed to take GPL code, change it yourself, keep the source private, and run a web 2.0 business on top of that source code.

Re: Microsoft: No GPLv3 Software for Windows Phone and Xbox Apps.

#48

Post by tzs »

skore wrote: post #16
btipling wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Also GPL style licenses are a virus that while they promote freedom, in reality they take it away. It assumes that people are naturally untrustworthy and thus forces them to act in a way the creators of GPL see as the right way. Because of how the GPL licenses are worded, especially insane versions like the AGPL, everything they touch may be affected negatively. MIT and BSD style licenses on the other hand a…

You're probably just trolling, but it needs to be said every time: The freedom that the GPL takes away is the freedom to bring down the system. It keeps people in check and prevents corruption. If you enjoy the freedoms of MIT and BSD style licenses - why do you complain about the GPL? It seems that it only takes "freedoms" away that you don't appear to be interested in anyways?

Could you rephrase that in terms that aren't nonsensical in the context of software licensing, such as "bring down the system" and "prevents corruption"?

Re: Microsoft: No GPLv3 Software for Windows Phone and Xbox Apps.

#49

Post by sjs »

cosgroveb wrote: post #23
btipling wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Also GPL style licenses are a virus that while they promote freedom, in reality they take it away. It assumes that people are naturally untrustworthy and thus forces them to act in a way the creators of GPL see as the right way. Because of how the GPL licenses are worded, especially insane versions like the AGPL, everything they touch may be affected negatively. MIT and BSD style licenses on the other hand a…

I'm not going to comment on whether GPL style licenses actually have the effect of promoting freedom like they say, but I don't see at all how they take it away. An author is free to write code and distribute it under the GPL. Likewise anyone else is free to fork it, or use it in their own codebase so long as they honor the terms of the license . How does that take away anyone's freedom? Don't like the terms of an au…

The problem is that nobody actually knows what constitutes a derivative work. Hence you have the LGPL for libraries so that you don't have to worry about linking them.

The result is that nobody wants to risk tainting their work with GPL code if they're trying to make money. If it's GPL many people won't even look at it because who knows if someone who contributed a 2 line patch 10 years ago is going to come banging down your door with lawyers crying about violations. That's not what freedom is about.

If you want your code to have the widest use possible go for BSD/MIT licenses. If you want to promote RMS' agenda go for the GPL.

Re: Microsoft: No GPLv3 Software for Windows Phone and Xbox Apps.

#50

Post by theBobMcCormick »

bitwize wrote: post #28
wladimir wrote: post #18

I don't want my platform to restrict what software I can run, especially not based on license. Is there any mobile platform these days that doesn't try to be your nanny as well?

You haven't cracked root on your Android phone yet?

You don't need to root your Android phone unless you want to re-flash a different version of the OS. If you're just looking to download apps from outside the market (direct from SourceForge or GoogleCode for example) all it takes is to check one little checkbox in the setting screen.
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