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No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

blog.interviewing.io

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Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#331

I'm so disappointed to read comments on this thread to the effect of "There's nothing in it for the company but risk". I once put in about 8 hours on a take home project at a company (well known in these parts) that I had tremendous respect for, only to get an email back with "sorry, not up to par. We need someone with more experience". I asked them for a couple quick points on what I could have done better. I had ze…

I had a guy at Qualcomm Austin tell me to read Advanced Compiler Design and Implementation by Muchnik. I read it and a few months later I was working for Qualcomm San Diego. I've thought about thanking him but I doubt he'd remember me, it was such a small comment.

Someone once did do this to me on the off chance I would remember it. I did remember it. And the memory of it is now one of the proudest things I look back on in my professional life.

Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#332
I wonder if a good middle ground between the two opinions expressed here would be to have an interview rubric with clear descriptions of each metric. So that receiving the feedback is more like getting results of a test back. Less prone to individual nuances of specific wording and still gives some directional guidance to the candidate for improvement.

Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Non paid take home projects... Huge red flag.

I disagree that it's an automatic red flag. 8 hours? Yeah that's too long. But I would rather do a 2 hour take-home project than a 2 hour whiteboard coding interview. Edit to add: as far as getting paid, nobody expects to get paid for an onsite interview so I wouldn't expect to get paid for a take home project either. As long as it takes the same amount of time that the coding portion of an onsite interview reasonabl…

The difference between a take home project and an on site interview is that a take home costs the hiring company nothing, whereas an on site costs them hours of engineer time. With that being true, they can make a lot more candidates do take home tests then on sites for the same cost, meaning it’s a lot less efficient use of a candidates time.

Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#334
post #325
post #6

One time we gave feedback on request and the candidate contested the feedback, then went out on a social media rampage. So yeah, we stopped after that. It only takes one bad candidate to make it not worth the effort.

Does providing feedback make this effect worse, or better? How do we know? N=1 isn't exactly a significant sample size. It used to be common knowledge that doctors should never say they're sorry, for the same reason (fear of lawsuit). Then research showed that apologizing actually reduced the number and severity of malpractice lawsuits. I see plenty of people attacking tech company interview processes on social media…

Engineers can't even go through a code review without getting butt hurt. And that's when you're on the same team with mostly the same goal.

Usually the blowback to the company hits marketing/legal/HR. Gathering and delivering feedback takes work. It's really politically expensive to explain why you're going out of your way to do work to cause other departments to do work for the sake of tech community altruism, especially right after it just burnt you. Giving career advice to strangers after an interview isn't the norm in any other field.

I don't really care if the candidate tries to sue the company. I don't work in legal, that's mostly not my problem. But if legal doesn't want to deal with it and ends up being a pain in my ass, yeah, I'm dropping the practice.

Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#335
post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>I once put in about 8 hours on a take home project at a company (well known in these parts) that I had tremendous respect for, only to get an email back with "sorry, not up to par. We need someone with more experience". Looks like this is a common pattern with take home projects. I faced a very similar problem a few weeks back. Though they called me for the interview. The general approach is to take some ones overn…

If they're dissecting it at that close a level, it's probably not a company you'd want to work for anyway. At least how I judge take home tests (for a simple backend CRUD app spec), I'm definitely not disqualifying based on surface level details like that. I don't even bother running it on my machine most of the time. What I'm looking for that it doesn't have obvious SQL injections (I've seen this a depressing number…

There are plenty of things in what you wrote. For example, My assignment was to build a command line app. The spec given said nothing about how bad inputs should be handled. How should they be handled? No Op? Throw exception? Friendly error messages? How?

Note how the evaluation changes from one person to other, you could be someone who expects an exception to be printed, I could be someone who expects an exception to be the wrong way, and would rather prefer a No Op.

As you yourself mentioned, SQL injection validations are important to you. Think of it from a candidate's perspective, you gave them a project with a certain set of features to finish in a deadline, and they need to finish it while holding a full time job. The candidate does the best they can to finish all the features. But you seem to have an invisible/opaque measurement in the form of SQL injection validation. The candidate might think you measure in terms of feature completion(Which would be correct, the project needs to work to be considered finished). The candidate could implement your spec 100% and yet get rejected.

>>it has some semblance of unit/automated tests, API validation, error handling, database migrations, good naming, and the code isn't all jammed in to one or two files.

In 24 hours?

What are you hiring for really? And why that kind of tearing hurry?

Having people to finish this kind of a high intensity ultramarathon coding drill under a crippling deadline. And then expect them to not just finish the assignment but also comply to your invisible quality checklist which no one knows but you.

For a change try taking such tests yourself. Like biggish projects, under super tough time limitations, and while you are at your current day job, with all the quality checklist evaluations attached. And then have it reviewed by other programmers.

You will see everyone has their own evaluation methods, and big feature projects delivered under heroic efforts, with tough deadlines tend to force you into some or the other quality compromise.

Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#336
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> rejection calls (a sadistic practice, if you’re not going to offer feedback IMO) Perhaps you're referring to other channels of communication, but I'd much rather have a rejection call than no contact at all . Corporate ghosting is much more sadistic.

If I'm not getting the job, just send me an email. JMHO.

At least do SOMETHING. Perfectly fine with an email.

Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#338

I'm so disappointed to read comments on this thread to the effect of "There's nothing in it for the company but risk". I once put in about 8 hours on a take home project at a company (well known in these parts) that I had tremendous respect for, only to get an email back with "sorry, not up to par. We need someone with more experience". I asked them for a couple quick points on what I could have done better. I had ze…

Interview homework is in many cases more of a disrespectful waste of candidates time than fresh grad whiteboard hazing rituals.

Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#339
post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You seem like a smart person, who hasn't done very much coding. That makes you a bad risk, Assuming Microsoft actually measures this stuff, that's kind of surprising to me. I've never placed much weight on being able to write a program on the spot.

Yeah, the space of things I can do quickly on the spot from practice, and the space of things I can get really good at after a few hours of re-calibrating, research, and trial and error are worlds apart. If I were hiring, I'd 100% look for people who can self-teach above all other technical qualifications (above and beyond whatever the basic competency level for the position is).

I only get an hour together or a bit more if I'm lucky.

In terms of people I've hired, if they can solve and code things in real time on a white board, then they can definitely do even better with more time and research.

Everyone does better with research, trial, and error. That's not unique. What's unique is problem solving on your feet in a foreign environment. I want those people.

Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A company has to hire someone. So they're forced to take the risk. They don't have to provide feedback, so they don't have to take the risk if they don't want to. Don't really think your comparison was fair.

But hopefully they interview more people than they hire.

which makes it even worse - if you interview 20 people, and 1 in 20 is a media rampager - every time you provide feedback on a hiring cycle you will have a rampage.
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