Getting a 402 from an embedded https://plot.ly graph right at the top of the article. Given that article about 402 I read here a few days ago, it's cool to see 402 in the wild for the first time.
the 402 has been fixed! Take another read!
No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback
91–100 of 646 posts
Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback
#92I think I've taken around 50 interviews in the last year or so. I always end the interview with "do you have any questions for me?" No one asks what they could have done better, but if they did I'd tell them.
Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback
#93One time we gave feedback on request and the candidate contested the feedback, then went out on a social media rampage. So yeah, we stopped after that. It only takes one bad candidate to make it not worth the effort.
+1 on this. The company has nothing to gain in delivering more feedback other than a thumbs up/down, and a lot more to lose.
I've always considered it just a professional courtesy, within reason. Just like it would be nice, but not required, for an applicant to say why they turned down a job offer. It can help us understand what's lacking to determine whether or not it's worth improving upon.
Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback
#94The key word in the title seems to be "engineer". I can't find a specific lawsuit relating to an engineer but there are plenty of lawsuits to be found. For example, https://www.eeoc.gov/eeoc/newsroom/release/10-26-17.cfm When you do a google search for lawsuits related to hiring discrimination, you are far far more likely to find the cases that became publicized because they have merit. Journalists and other organiza…
It cuts both ways. Imagine you tell someone of a protected class "Hey, you did really well" and they don't get hired. What's worse, what if some non-minority gets hired.
You've just opened yourself to a mess proving that the reason you didn't hire one vs the other was because of experience.
Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
Steer clear of what? Almost all companies have this “no feedback” policy in some form. I’ve gotten rejection calls (a sadistic practice, if you’re not going to offer feedback IMO), where I’ve explicitly asked for feedback and literally been told “no.” If I limited myself to companies that provide feedback, I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t have a career right now.
> rejection calls (a sadistic practice, if you’re not going to offer feedback IMO) Perhaps you're referring to other channels of communication, but I'd much rather have a rejection call than no contact at all . Corporate ghosting is much more sadistic.
If I'm not getting the job, just send me an email. JMHO.
Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you haven’t filed any documents, you haven’t sued anyone, either. I find it really hard to believe that every single case of an engineer suing over post-interview feedback has settled out of court, too.
That’s getting a little bit nit-picky over the definition of “sue”. In this context the risk people are talking about is that a candidate will make some sort of legal claim against them. Whether that claim ends up in court really only changes the potential impact of that risk. Especially considering most HR related legal complaints end up with an out of court settlement (even a lot of the frivolous ones), because the…
There is a legal definition of "sue" and it does mean just that, to file a civil claim in court. You may receive a nasty letter from a lawyer threatening to sue you unless you fulfil their demands, but that's kind of the point, they're threatening to sue you but at this moment you haven't been sued yet and won't be until (and unless) they actually do file a claim; and it might as well be just empty threats asserting that they could do that with no actual intention to follow up (lawyers do that), so it's an important difference between threatening to sue (which can be done frivolously) and actually suing.
https://lmgtfy.com/?q=legal+definition+of+sue&s=d
https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/sue - "To initiate a lawsuit or continue a legal proceeding"
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sue - "to seek justice or right from (a person) by legal process" (all the letters and negotiations up and until a suit has been filed is not the legal process); "to take legal proceedings in court".
Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback
#97For a lot of interviewees, particularly on phone screens, there is just no constructive feedback to give.
Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
It also doesn’t mean that it is. How many times have you read a review on Glassdoor that said “great company, but I was fired for being a completely toxic bully”? The lack of credibility in the reviews cuts both ways.
When one person says that their work environment is shit, that's one thing. When five people say that their work environment is shit, there may be something to it.
Maybe. I suspect there might be some value hidden in the aggregate data on Glassdoor (but that really is just as susceptible to the same type of manipulation). The number 5 may also be significant or insignificant depending entirely upon the size of the organisation.
But really, if your reasoning was robust, it would work in both directions. I don’t think you’d agree with the statement “if five people say that their work environment is great, there may be something to it”. The system can be (and is) gamed in both directions, and there are people who have incentives to do so in either direction, for both “justified” and “unjustified” reasons. Any reason you come up with to be skeptical of a good review also applies to a bad one.
Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
+1 on this. The company has nothing to gain in delivering more feedback other than a thumbs up/down, and a lot more to lose.
I've always considered it just a professional courtesy, within reason. Just like it would be nice, but not required, for an applicant to say why they turned down a job offer. It can help us understand what's lacking to determine whether or not it's worth improving upon.
Professional courtesy doesn't matter much when it's now the norm not to be curteous, and thought to be unprofitable (in all the ways benefit is measured, not just in monetary terms) if the company is curteous. There is no professionalism above the level requried to maintain an increasing rate of profit. Workers in all industries since the beginning of waged labour have learned this fact the hard way.
Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback
#100The hiring process is a black box for a reason. The HR department's role is to protect the company first, not the employees, and certainly not prospective employees. If feedback can be interpreted as being discriminatory, or reflective of bad company culture in general, well, word gets around. For much of the time, the reason people don't get the job is that there was someone marginally more qualified/attractive/like…
Bingo. After the interview is done and the answer is a solid NO, as a company we have NO BUSINESS RELATIONSHIP with you. Any iota of effort we put towards you is essentially wasted effort, even if very minor. What changes that discussion further is that there is a small, but still quite real, possibility of lawsuit, social media rant (as another comment mentioned), or even a disgruntled applicant shooting up the plac…
In a vacuum that might be true, but software engineers know other software engineers, and there are plenty of forums for discussing hiring experiences, including HN. If a company systematically treats people they don't intend to go further with like crap, their reputation with other candidates will suffer. You'd like failed candidates to not talk shit about your company when their friend considers applying.