Ask HN: How did you fix your narcissism? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: How did you fix your narcissism?

#221

Post by climb_stealth » Thu, Feb 06, 2020, 10:38 PM UTC

gonehome wrote: post #117

ggambetta wrote: post #15

Seeing a therapist might be infinitely better than reading a book, and not just for narcissism. We're all broken in our own wonderful and unique ways. I've been seeing a therapist for 5 years now, and the positive impact this has had in my life and on my general self-awareness can't be overstated. As engineers and tech people we have one tool that has proven incredible useful in our careers: our brilliant rational mi…

People say this a lot, but it never seems very actionable. How do you do find someone good that you trust? How do you find someone worth the time? The couple of times I've tried to find someone you end up making a lot of unreturned phone calls. Maybe I have an unfairly negative impression of therapists - I both think that it's incredibly valuable to introspect and have someone smart and thoughtful to work things out…

> How do you do find someone good that you trust? How do you find someone worth the time?

In my experience the best way to find someone is through recommendations. Find someone with a good therapist, and contact the therapist for recommendations. They usually know other people in the field that work with a similar approach.

I feel CBT only works with simple issues. For trauma and deep running issues I would suggest finding someone who looks into the root of issues and doesn't just try to change behaviours. See psychotherapy for example.

Otherwise it depends on where you live as well.

In Australia, and definitely for NSW:

- look for a psychiatrist instead of a psychologist. With a psychologist you get 10 sessions for free by the government, but then you have to pay the full fee yourself. This ends up being around $150-$250 per session from what I have seen. With a psychiatrist the medicare safety net kicks in, and after $2000 of out of pocket expenses you get 85% of the session fees back. In my case I end up paying ~$40 for my $350 therapy sessions which makes a huge difference when therapy can be going for years.

Happy to help out with recommendations in the NSW Australia area.

Re: Ask HN: How did you fix your narcissism?

#222

Post by MadWombat » Thu, Feb 06, 2020, 10:39 PM UTC

toxicFork wrote: post #192

MadWombat wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Take things too personally? Try meditating. How would it help?

Not any kind of meditation, but some meditation practices allow you to see sensations and experiences in their own context rather than only by how you may be involved within them. For example Satipatthana - or "mindfulness" looks at phenomena starting from sensory experiences in order to prevent cravings or aversion. Cravings and aversion come from how you react to things you may find desirable or undesirable. The de…

Thank you so much, you are one of the very few people I have met online who acknowledges that "meditation" is not a single practice.

That said, I am not sure I understand what you mean when you say "cravings and aversion come from how you react to things you may find desirable or undesirable". It seems kinda meaningless, like yeah, I feel aversion when I don't want things to happen and yes, things I don't want to happen are undesirable to me. And yes, desirableness and undesirableness are, of course, connected to me, it is me who decides which things are desirable or undesirable to me.

Like, lets say I fall into sewage treatment tank. Drowning in shit is an undesirable thing and I feel a great aversion to it. And yes, it is me, personally, who finds drowning in shit undesirable, the undesirableness of this outcome is connected to me very directly. But I do not see how meditation might help me.

Re: Ask HN: How did you fix your narcissism?

#223

Post by climb_stealth » Thu, Feb 06, 2020, 10:41 PM UTC

sounds wrote: post #137

gonehome wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People say this a lot, but it never seems very actionable. How do you do find someone good that you trust? How do you find someone worth the time? The couple of times I've tried to find someone you end up making a lot of unreturned phone calls. Maybe I have an unfairly negative impression of therapists - I both think that it's incredibly valuable to introspect and have someone smart and thoughtful to work things out…

I'm actually attending therapy, on a regular schedule, and struggled to find a good therapist. Shop around? You're inviting someone to perform online brain surgery on you. Fortunately, you can undo the operation if you don't like it (sort of). If you don't like what the therapist is doing, keep looking for a different therapist that works for you. I've heard a story where a therapist got upset with their client becau…

> I've heard a story where a therapist got upset with their client because the client said, during a therapy session, they were going to find someone else.

That would be a clear sign of a bad therapist. There very much has to be room to discuss seeing someone else, and whether the therapy relationship is working.

Re: Ask HN: How did you fix your narcissism?

#224

Post by zoom6628 » Thu, Feb 06, 2020, 10:41 PM UTC

Humility is always a good characteristic in people but its something that in order to be genuine it has to be learnt and practiced. My advice is go do some volunteer work for people who are seriously under-privileged in some way, especially ways you cannot fix. Sit with them, hear their stories, feel the frustration you cannot do a damn thing to 'solve their problem', and just try and 'be present' for them in that moment. Do it over a long period of time - this is not a one-hit wonder - and regularly. Helping out in an old-folks home, working with quadraplegics, UNHCR immigrants are all things available to most of us close to home. Even helping at a pet shelter will help somewhat. Do it for a year or two. The most important is to do it regularly and without ego or opinion. And usually the only cost is your time and transport.

Re: Ask HN: How did you fix your narcissism?

#225

Post by YesThatTom2 » Thu, Feb 06, 2020, 10:41 PM UTC

vearwhershuh wrote: post #23

Get married and have kids. Nothing will cure narcissism more effectively than holding a quivering, helpless newborn in your arms and realizing that you must keep this miracle alive.

You haven't met my mom.

Re: Ask HN: How did you fix your narcissism?

#226

Post by gonehome » Thu, Feb 06, 2020, 10:41 PM UTC

fao_ wrote: post #194

gonehome wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People say this a lot, but it never seems very actionable. How do you do find someone good that you trust? How do you find someone worth the time? The couple of times I've tried to find someone you end up making a lot of unreturned phone calls. Maybe I have an unfairly negative impression of therapists - I both think that it's incredibly valuable to introspect and have someone smart and thoughtful to work things out…

> How do you do find someone good that you trust? How do you find someone worth the time? The couple of times I've tried to find someone you end up making a lot of unreturned phone calls. But it's the same with Doctors. Some doctors won't listen to your symptoms, some doctors might have old information, or brush you off. Would you put off going to a doctor because of those problems?

It's not really the same with doctors.

With doctors there are places everyone goes where you can sign up and get a doctor which is relatively easy to schedule. From there for routine stuff there's less variability, you just do your routine checkup, and you'll be referred to experts if necessary.

There's also a higher minimum standard to get an MD.

It's both way easier to find one and easier to determine they're qualified/actually know what they're talking about (though obviously there's still variance in quality just not as bad).

With therapists there's no clarity around any of this really.

Re: Ask HN: How did you fix your narcissism?

#227

Post by 29athrowaway » Thu, Feb 06, 2020, 10:42 PM UTC

Assess your weaknesses. Ask other people about your weaknesses. Do not blame others for your own weaknesses and mistakes.

Assess your strengths. Ask other people about your strengths. Do not take credit for others' strengths and achievements.

Re: Ask HN: How did you fix your narcissism?

#228

Post by AndrewKemendo » Thu, Feb 06, 2020, 10:43 PM UTC

Domenic_S wrote: post #209

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand, but the whole subtext is that he's taking responsibility, and not blaming other people, something narcissists can't do.

That's the trick: it seems that way, but really it's a trap/defense against change. Narcissists are very, very good at seeming to others like they want to fix something about themselves, all the while digging themselves in deeper because deep down they don't really think something is wrong. He says "I tend to judge situations only from my perspective" -- and then proceeds to write this very public post completely fro…

Like other disorders NPD lies on a spectrum.

From a clinical perspective (I'm not a clinician but have been treated by them btw) my understanding is that untreatable NPD presents as basically no remorse and no introspection at all. What would be called a "sociopath" which isn't itself a diagnosis.

So while yes I totally understand what you're talking about, that the attention seeking of the post itself could be considered narcissistic I am taking it at face value and saying there might be a possibility of some rehab. So my suggestion og talking with a mental health provider is the right option here.

Re: Ask HN: How did you fix your narcissism?

#229

Post by hinkley » Thu, Feb 06, 2020, 10:44 PM UTC

Stress, especially without robust coping mechanisms, can make you withdrawn.

That can show up as lack of empathy and selfishness. You can be selfish and not be a narcissist.

The oxygen mask rule applies here. You can’t take care of anyone else while you’re floundering. Counterintuively, making a conscious effort to take care of yourself may free up energy for helping others. Right now you might be choosing you by default. And since it’s undirected, the costs are higher and the benefits lower.

Re: Ask HN: How did you fix your narcissism?

#230

Post by gonehome » Thu, Feb 06, 2020, 10:44 PM UTC

climb_stealth wrote: post #221

gonehome wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People say this a lot, but it never seems very actionable. How do you do find someone good that you trust? How do you find someone worth the time? The couple of times I've tried to find someone you end up making a lot of unreturned phone calls. Maybe I have an unfairly negative impression of therapists - I both think that it's incredibly valuable to introspect and have someone smart and thoughtful to work things out…

> How do you do find someone good that you trust? How do you find someone worth the time? In my experience the best way to find someone is through recommendations. Find someone with a good therapist, and contact the therapist for recommendations. They usually know other people in the field that work with a similar approach. I feel CBT only works with simple issues. For trauma and deep running issues I would suggest f…

I'm in the bay area - this seems like the best option.

The difficulty is either I don't know anyone my age that has one or it's still taboo for men to talk about so people don't. I'd guess it's a combination of both. The only people I've known personally who see a therapist are women (and from that small sample they don't want you to see their same person).

I think men tend to rely entirely on their SO which is probably not a great thing for either party.