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DHS plans urgently needed to address identified challenges before 2020 elections [pdf]

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Re: DHS plans urgently needed to address identified challenges before 2020 elections [pdf]

#31
post #28

when viewed from a sludge-money lens (a la the F35) electronic voting and election security seem largely working as intended: - we know paper works (Canada/UK) so there must be an ulterior motive for pushing on tech solution so hard - money gets sent to various entities under the guise of tech, security, freedom, etc. (contracts for voting machines, contracts for software, etc.). this basically gives some limited air…

>>- we know paper works (Canada/UK) so there must be an ulterior motive for pushing on tech solution so hard Works sure, efficient no, and largely one of the reason for low participation rates (though far from the only) That said none of the "tech" solutions that simply replace paper ballots at a polling place with a Touch Screen at a polling place would be what I desire from a "tech" solution to voting The rest of y…

> efficient no,

How is it not efficient? Elections Canada figures out how to count ballots in a few hours. 95% of the work of putting on an election is setting up, and running the polling stations. Using an electronic system is not going to make that 95% any easier.

The only thing that would make it easier, is purely mail-in ballots, like in Washington State.

> and largely one of the reason for low participation rates (though far from the only)

Canada has a 5-15% higher voter turnout rate.

Re: DHS plans urgently needed to address identified challenges before 2020 elections [pdf]

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we have any evidence that non-citizens voting is an actual problem, or are you just spreading FUD? The GP has linked some well sourced articles about how voter ID laws have been used for primarily racist purposes in the US. Do you have any evidence that supports another narrative?

Racist? Where the hell does that come from? Why would any particular race not be able to produce legal documentation confirming their identity at a poll booth?

Voter ID laws disproportionately disenfranchise minority communities.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-we-know-about-vote...

11% of U.S. citizens – or more than 21 million Americans – do not have government-issued photo identification.

These voters are disproportionately low-income, racial and ethnic minorities, the elderly, and people with disabilities. Such voters more frequently have difficulty obtaining ID, because they cannot afford or cannot obtain the underlying documents that are a prerequisite to obtaining government-issued photo ID card.

https://www.aclu.org/other/oppose-voter-id-legislation-fact-...

Some Republicans Acknowledge Leveraging Voter ID Laws for Political Gain

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/17/us/some-republicans-ackno...

Re: DHS plans urgently needed to address identified challenges before 2020 elections [pdf]

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Racist? Where the hell does that come from? Why would any particular race not be able to produce legal documentation confirming their identity at a poll booth?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_ID_laws_in_the_United_St... This is not a difficult topic, nor is it a very nuanced one; voter ID laws in the United States are and have been overwhelmingly racist. The answers to your questions are very much easily at hand, and we don't need to argue in ignorance. I understand it can be frustrating to see evidence that you are unprepared for; yet in order to have substantive conve…

I'm willing to have an earnest, extended conversation with you. On the other hand, you are immediately unwilling to personally support the basic premise of your proposed argument.

This is very curious; perhaps you are a dishonest actor with a knowingly unsound argument. (This is my natural and rational suspicion, please take no offense!)

Re: DHS plans urgently needed to address identified challenges before 2020 elections [pdf]

#34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_ID_laws_in_the_United_St... This is not a difficult topic, nor is it a very nuanced one; voter ID laws in the United States are and have been overwhelmingly racist. The answers to your questions are very much easily at hand, and we don't need to argue in ignorance. I understand it can be frustrating to see evidence that you are unprepared for; yet in order to have substantive conve…

I'm willing to have an earnest, extended conversation with you. On the other hand, you are immediately unwilling to personally support the basic premise of your proposed argument. This is very curious; perhaps you are a dishonest actor with a knowingly unsound argument. (This is my natural and rational suspicion, please take no offense!)

[deleted]

Re: DHS plans urgently needed to address identified challenges before 2020 elections [pdf]

#35
post #31
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>- we know paper works (Canada/UK) so there must be an ulterior motive for pushing on tech solution so hard Works sure, efficient no, and largely one of the reason for low participation rates (though far from the only) That said none of the "tech" solutions that simply replace paper ballots at a polling place with a Touch Screen at a polling place would be what I desire from a "tech" solution to voting The rest of y…

> efficient no, How is it not efficient? Elections Canada figures out how to count ballots in a few hours. 95% of the work of putting on an election is setting up, and running the polling stations. Using an electronic system is not going to make that 95% any easier. The only thing that would make it easier, is purely mail-in ballots, like in Washington State. > and largely one of the reason for low participation rate…

>>How is it not efficient?

It is not efficient for the people voting. More than 1 election I simply skipped because I did not want to find my polling place, stand in line, and then vote

I want a Polling Place free Voting system

Re: DHS plans urgently needed to address identified challenges before 2020 elections [pdf]

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Voter ID laws aren't about protecting elections, they're about disenfranchising voters: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/17/us/some-republicans-ackno... https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/dec/21/trump-advise...

That's just propaganda based on speculation about what the "other side" intends with voter ID laws. People want voter ID laws so that non citizens can't vote. This is the reason why many developed countries around the world have some form of voter ID.

Some Republicans Acknowledge Leveraging Voter ID Laws for Political Gain

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/17/us/some-republicans-ackno...

Re: DHS plans urgently needed to address identified challenges before 2020 elections [pdf]

#37

when viewed from a sludge-money lens (a la the F35) electronic voting and election security seem largely working as intended: - we know paper works (Canada/UK) so there must be an ulterior motive for pushing on tech solution so hard - money gets sent to various entities under the guise of tech, security, freedom, etc. (contracts for voting machines, contracts for software, etc.). this basically gives some limited air…

> ...so there must be an ulterior motive for pushing on tech solution so hard

I know someone in the industry who thinks software voting will solve the issues. It’s not ulterior motives; People actually believe it will help.

Re: DHS plans urgently needed to address identified challenges before 2020 elections [pdf]

#38
post #28

when viewed from a sludge-money lens (a la the F35) electronic voting and election security seem largely working as intended: - we know paper works (Canada/UK) so there must be an ulterior motive for pushing on tech solution so hard - money gets sent to various entities under the guise of tech, security, freedom, etc. (contracts for voting machines, contracts for software, etc.). this basically gives some limited air…

>>- we know paper works (Canada/UK) so there must be an ulterior motive for pushing on tech solution so hard Works sure, efficient no, and largely one of the reason for low participation rates (though far from the only) That said none of the "tech" solutions that simply replace paper ballots at a polling place with a Touch Screen at a polling place would be what I desire from a "tech" solution to voting The rest of y…

There are some pretty hard, potentially unsolvable, problems around electronic voting around guaranteeing the ability to vote and guaranteeing the accurate record of voting - these problems aren't unique to electronics but paper & person systems have pretty good ways to protecting against system abuse by being incredibly inconveniently distributed, having known actors that can face legal pressure, relying on our existing social systems to increase the difficulty in compromising the system and, lastly, having thinking components that can act in isolation to solve problems independently including those we can't anticipate.

"Tech" exacerbates those issues while not offering a lot in exchange, the big two I can think of is accessibility (which, honestly, look at Washington state's system for a counterpoint there - though it is limited in how many states are that good) and quick vote tallying.

I just don't see the point - have automatic counting machines, allow tech to help inform voters (provide a blurb on the candidates or dedicate a gov't organization to providing some structured data around political stances), allow easy confirmation of registration and auto-enroll eligible voters... just... keep the ballots dead simple.

Re: DHS plans urgently needed to address identified challenges before 2020 elections [pdf]

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_ID_laws_in_the_United_St... This is not a difficult topic, nor is it a very nuanced one; voter ID laws in the United States are and have been overwhelmingly racist. The answers to your questions are very much easily at hand, and we don't need to argue in ignorance. I understand it can be frustrating to see evidence that you are unprepared for; yet in order to have substantive conve…

I'm willing to have an earnest, extended conversation with you. On the other hand, you are immediately unwilling to personally support the basic premise of your proposed argument. This is very curious; perhaps you are a dishonest actor with a knowingly unsound argument. (This is my natural and rational suspicion, please take no offense!)

Yes, as my posting history clearly indicates, I'm a schill for voting rights and equal representation.

Re: DHS plans urgently needed to address identified challenges before 2020 elections [pdf]

#40
post #35
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> efficient no, How is it not efficient? Elections Canada figures out how to count ballots in a few hours. 95% of the work of putting on an election is setting up, and running the polling stations. Using an electronic system is not going to make that 95% any easier. The only thing that would make it easier, is purely mail-in ballots, like in Washington State. > and largely one of the reason for low participation rate…

>>How is it not efficient? It is not efficient for the people voting. More than 1 election I simply skipped because I did not want to find my polling place, stand in line, and then vote I want a Polling Place free Voting system

Take this up with your government - electronic voting systems isn't the solution for this... making a huge deal over states when they cut the number of polling places is. It is super depressing that AZ[1] wasn't rung through the wringer by public outrage over their polling place shenanigans in the last election - both winners and losers should care about the accessibility of voting.

Also it's about time for election day to become a national holiday - as a former Vermonter I always enjoyed participating in Town Meeting Day, giving people a day off to participate in government is a strictly good thing.

1. https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016...

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