DHS plans urgently needed to address identified challenges before 2020 elections [pdf] • Hacker News Board

Re: DHS plans urgently needed to address identified challenges before 2020 elections [pdf]

#21

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Feb 06, 2020, 9:16 PM UTC

claudeganon wrote: post #20

maximente wrote: post #12

when viewed from a sludge-money lens (a la the F35) electronic voting and election security seem largely working as intended: - we know paper works (Canada/UK) so there must be an ulterior motive for pushing on tech solution so hard - money gets sent to various entities under the guise of tech, security, freedom, etc. (contracts for voting machines, contracts for software, etc.). this basically gives some limited air…

Judging from Iowa, I imagine that some primary Sanders wins will claim to have been hacked by Russians. Democratic Party operatives were already doing false flag “Kremlin” stuff during the Doug Jones race in Alabama: https://thegrayzone.com/2019/01/23/how-new-york-times-scott-...

[deleted]

Re: DHS plans urgently needed to address identified challenges before 2020 elections [pdf]

#22

Post by b1ur » Thu, Feb 06, 2020, 9:19 PM UTC

geogra4 wrote: post #6

Paper and pencils please.

I'm more of a pen guy, if you want to change my paper vote you better have whiteout and a steady hand

Re: DHS plans urgently needed to address identified challenges before 2020 elections [pdf]

#23

Post by ZeroCool2u » Thu, Feb 06, 2020, 9:19 PM UTC

Interesting that the DHS response to all 3 points is that they concur, but for all 3 points the resolution the Department points to is a document called the #Protect2020 Strategic Plan, which will supposedly be released on Feb 14th.

Is that actually enough time for the guidance within to be implemented?

Re: DHS plans urgently needed to address identified challenges before 2020 elections [pdf]

#24

Post by deadEndDave » Thu, Feb 06, 2020, 9:23 PM UTC

minikites wrote: post #13

alwaysanagenda wrote: post #5

It's pretty easy to "secure" the election. 1. Voter ID 2. Paper ballot electronically counted, paper stored as backup for any disputes or recounts. 3. No digital / computerized voting machines.

Voter ID laws aren't about protecting elections, they're about disenfranchising voters: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/17/us/some-republicans-ackno... https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/dec/21/trump-advise...

If this was the case, then why do 17 other countries require ID when voting? Are they too "disenfranchising voters"??

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_Identification_laws#Norw...

I would make a note that a majority of the Nordic countries like Sweden, Norway, and Iceland ALL require some form of ID when voting.

Re: DHS plans urgently needed to address identified challenges before 2020 elections [pdf]

#25

Post by 1000units » Thu, Feb 06, 2020, 9:26 PM UTC

wbronitsky wrote: post #17

1000units wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's about keeping non-citizens who don't have the right to vote from voting. Not implementing these laws diminishes the enfranchised.

Do we have any evidence that non-citizens voting is an actual problem, or are you just spreading FUD? The GP has linked some well sourced articles about how voter ID laws have been used for primarily racist purposes in the US. Do you have any evidence that supports another narrative?

Racist? Where the hell does that come from? Why would any particular race not be able to produce legal documentation confirming their identity at a poll booth?

Re: DHS plans urgently needed to address identified challenges before 2020 elections [pdf]

#26

Post by alwaysanagenda » Thu, Feb 06, 2020, 9:27 PM UTC

minikites wrote: post #13

alwaysanagenda wrote: post #5

It's pretty easy to "secure" the election. 1. Voter ID 2. Paper ballot electronically counted, paper stored as backup for any disputes or recounts. 3. No digital / computerized voting machines.

Voter ID laws aren't about protecting elections, they're about disenfranchising voters: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/17/us/some-republicans-ackno... https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/dec/21/trump-advise...

Yes, I've heard this bromide for a very long time -- my whole life, really.

It's an outrageous lie.

The only people it disenfranchises are those who would seek to stuff the ballot with illegal votes. Think of how many people it ENABLES by not having Voter ID.

That issue is not discussed in these articles, it's just dismissed as there not being any evidence. Wow, great reporting! Zero zilch nada? Not a scrap?

Do you think some of these journalists would do their job and look for some? It's not really hard to find. Look, I found one! I bet there's more, too.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/10/18/project_v...

If your argument is that Voter ID disproportionately affects "minorities and people of color" then I would say you should re-evaluate the way you think about these people.

I spent many years in some of the harshest places in the Bronx and I can tell you that the issues people face in these communities are not issues about getting government IDs.

Moreover, would not the voice of minorities and people of color be MOST at risk? Shouldn't we do everything we can to make sure their votes are not canceled by illegal voting?

PS, here is a short list of other countries that have Voter ID.

Mexico India Greece Argentina Canada Brazil

Re: DHS plans urgently needed to address identified challenges before 2020 elections [pdf]

#27

Post by 1000units » Thu, Feb 06, 2020, 9:29 PM UTC

josefresco wrote: post #16

1000units wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's about keeping non-citizens who don't have the right to vote from voting. Not implementing these laws diminishes the enfranchised.

Nope, just another form of Poll tax: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poll_taxes_in_the_United_State...

No, it isn't. However, let's assume it is. If you don't pay your (separate and presumably uncontroversial) federal taxes, you become a felon and legally disenfranchised. It becomes clear this is all a minor accounting detail.

Re: DHS plans urgently needed to address identified challenges before 2020 elections [pdf]

#28

Post by syshum » Thu, Feb 06, 2020, 9:31 PM UTC

maximente wrote: post #12

when viewed from a sludge-money lens (a la the F35) electronic voting and election security seem largely working as intended: - we know paper works (Canada/UK) so there must be an ulterior motive for pushing on tech solution so hard - money gets sent to various entities under the guise of tech, security, freedom, etc. (contracts for voting machines, contracts for software, etc.). this basically gives some limited air…

>>- we know paper works (Canada/UK) so there must be an ulterior motive for pushing on tech solution so hard

Works sure, efficient no, and largely one of the reason for low participation rates (though far from the only)

That said none of the "tech" solutions that simply replace paper ballots at a polling place with a Touch Screen at a polling place would be what I desire from a "tech" solution to voting

The rest of your points are largely true, though on the money never discount the power of incompetence when it comes to government, they way government contracts are "awarded" attracts the most incompetent people in any industry for if they were competent they would not need government contracts

as the old saying goes...

If you can... do

If you cant.. Teach

If you cant teach... Work for the government

Re: DHS plans urgently needed to address identified challenges before 2020 elections [pdf]

#29

Post by corporate_shi11 » Thu, Feb 06, 2020, 9:36 PM UTC

minikites wrote: post #13

alwaysanagenda wrote: post #5

It's pretty easy to "secure" the election. 1. Voter ID 2. Paper ballot electronically counted, paper stored as backup for any disputes or recounts. 3. No digital / computerized voting machines.

Voter ID laws aren't about protecting elections, they're about disenfranchising voters: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/17/us/some-republicans-ackno... https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/dec/21/trump-advise...

That's just propaganda based on speculation about what the "other side" intends with voter ID laws. People want voter ID laws so that non citizens can't vote. This is the reason why many developed countries around the world have some form of voter ID.

Re: DHS plans urgently needed to address identified challenges before 2020 elections [pdf]

#30

Post by wbronitsky » Thu, Feb 06, 2020, 9:36 PM UTC

1000units wrote: post #25

wbronitsky wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we have any evidence that non-citizens voting is an actual problem, or are you just spreading FUD? The GP has linked some well sourced articles about how voter ID laws have been used for primarily racist purposes in the US. Do you have any evidence that supports another narrative?

Racist? Where the hell does that come from? Why would any particular race not be able to produce legal documentation confirming their identity at a poll booth?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_ID_laws_in_the_United_St...

This is not a difficult topic, nor is it a very nuanced one; voter ID laws in the United States are and have been overwhelmingly racist. The answers to your questions are very much easily at hand, and we don't need to argue in ignorance. I understand it can be frustrating to see evidence that you are unprepared for; yet in order to have substantive conversations, we must be ready for such evidence, and consider it when it is present.