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European parliament says it will not use facial recognition tech

theguardian.com

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Re: European parliament says it will not use facial recognition tech

#21

Post by Quanttek »

gdhbcc wrote: post #20
bilekas wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not up to the EU. Thats up to the individual countries. The EU is a memebership of collective countries, not some all powerfull entity of controlling its memebers and telling them what to do.. It's not the same as the US federal system.

How about all the mass surveillance programs the EU has been funding for decades that do use facial recognition?

What mass surveillance programs has the EU (not individual member states, like the UK or Germany) been funding "for decades"? The EU doesn't even have an intelligence service. The only entity I could be thinking about is Frontex.

Re: European parliament says it will not use facial recognition tech

#22

Post by eufandom »

ben_w wrote: post #18
eufandom wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesnt really, european countries are frequently bullied into submission. I.e. allowing 1 million undocumented aliens in, bureaucracy and all other things the far left of HN will flag. It will, without doubt, collapse die to the opposite of allowing countries do what they see fit for their own citizen safety.

> I.e. allowing 1 million undocumented aliens in What exactly are you talking about? On the one hand, if a subpopulation is undocumented, you can’t know how many there are. On the other, I’m sure you’re referring to the million asylum seekers that Germany in particular looked after at the same time that another EU state, Hungary, was putting up barbed wire fences on their borders so that none went into Hungary. Germa…

>> On the other, I’m sure you’re referring to the million asylum seekers that Germany in particular looked after at the same time that another EU state, Hungary, was putting up barbed wire fences on their borders so that none went into Hungary.

Germany didn't want, Germany diktated. And just because Hungary, as any sovereign nation, has decided to protect its borders it doesn't make Hungary "evil". I know they don't take advantage of EU free movement rules, they take advantage of Germany's need for cheap labour to cover retirement costs. A chat with any average German person will tell you about the social tensions this madness brought into the country. And that madness is pushing voters to the far right. Pretty irresponsible, and your example shows exactly the issue with the EU - because Hungary, a sovereign member state, went against what Germany wanted, they've pretty much been cornered. Now Germany is riddled with social tension, and day by day reports of far right gaining popularity are in the press headlines. You've pretty much proven my point, thanks.

Re: European parliament says it will not use facial recognition tech

#23

Post by tremon »

bilekas wrote: post #11
chank wrote: post #8

Been through an airport in the EU or going to the EU lately?

That's not up to the EU. Thats up to the individual countries. The EU is a memebership of collective countries, not some all powerfull entity of controlling its memebers and telling them what to do.. It's not the same as the US federal system.

Not really. Visitors from outside the EU's "trusted sphere" will have their fingerprints taken at the border. Even though the EU is a membership of collective countries, this all-powerful entity is controlling its members and telling them to do this.

Likewise, using facial recognition technology on airports is exactly within scope of the EU to mandate (or outlaw).

Re: European parliament says it will not use facial recognition tech

#24

Post by eufandom »

ben_w wrote: post #18
eufandom wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesnt really, european countries are frequently bullied into submission. I.e. allowing 1 million undocumented aliens in, bureaucracy and all other things the far left of HN will flag. It will, without doubt, collapse die to the opposite of allowing countries do what they see fit for their own citizen safety.

> I.e. allowing 1 million undocumented aliens in What exactly are you talking about? On the one hand, if a subpopulation is undocumented, you can’t know how many there are. On the other, I’m sure you’re referring to the million asylum seekers that Germany in particular looked after at the same time that another EU state, Hungary, was putting up barbed wire fences on their borders so that none went into Hungary. Germa…

Also speaking about Germany and its do good attitude, I heard citizens of certain EU member states are to be reported to the police when staying at hotels in certain regions. Is that acceptable that all citizens of EU nations can be treated as criminals? Man the hypocrisy level is just unbelievable.

Re: European parliament says it will not use facial recognition tech

#25

Post by skrebbel »

bilekas wrote: post #11
chank wrote: post #8

Been through an airport in the EU or going to the EU lately?

That's not up to the EU. Thats up to the individual countries. The EU is a memebership of collective countries, not some all powerfull entity of controlling its memebers and telling them what to do.. It's not the same as the US federal system.

> controlling its memebers and telling them what to do

This is exactly what EU directives and EU regulations are for. Every time the EU accepts either one of those, all members must follow them.

EDIT: I'm confused that this gets downvoted. The EU has the power to force laws upon its members (not in every policy area, but in plenty) and it does so frequently. If that's not "telling member states what to do" then what is?

Re: European parliament says it will not use facial recognition tech

#26

Post by bilekas »

eufandom wrote: post #17
bilekas wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I.e. allowing 1 million undocumented aliens in Human rights and trying to be decent to people fleeing wars is now a bad thing ? Also collectively agreeing to help these people.. Collectively. Countries can have their own policies. What Bullying are you talking about ?? I will refer to my previous statement as it seems some people don't really understand how the EU works. The EU is a memebership of collective countr…

Not at all, it’s a good thung. But not chaotically and at that scale. Also not by bullying countries which already have helped pretty much all countries where such issues happen. It seeks like you still think the eu is an equal memberships club - germany issued a diktat, all others had better obeyed it, or else... I am against brexit and pro reform. The EU is dated and operates through bully power. If it doesnt refor…

> People like you who strongly oppose reform and blindly believe the eu is perfection

I don't think it's perfect, in fact I don't know of any system thats perfect, but how it operates in pricipal is okay, and how that reform and improvement is done could be quicker but I'm not going to claim it's going to collapse. The single market is the main selling point of the EU. Not imigration control, those issues are state decided. IE by the respective members.

> germany issued a diktat, all others had better obeyed it, or else...

What are you refering to ? Genuinely, what has been adopted by members that was not agreed to and has hurt their citizens ?

Re: European parliament says it will not use facial recognition tech

#27

Post by bilekas »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #19
bilekas wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not up to the EU. Thats up to the individual countries. The EU is a memebership of collective countries, not some all powerfull entity of controlling its memebers and telling them what to do.. It's not the same as the US federal system.

That is true, but it’s also the case that EU countries agree to collective rule-making in some cases. If the member states agree, following the established process, that facial recognition should be disallowed throughout the EU then that’s something that can totally happen. Just like GDPR.

All member states would need to agree to implement the banning of facial recognition for it to be effective. Again this is a descision which the members must agree to. And it is certainly possible. But there is not 1 entity who decides for all members.

Re: European parliament says it will not use facial recognition tech

#28

Post by bilekas »

tremon wrote: post #23
bilekas wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not up to the EU. Thats up to the individual countries. The EU is a memebership of collective countries, not some all powerfull entity of controlling its memebers and telling them what to do.. It's not the same as the US federal system.

Not really. Visitors from outside the EU's "trusted sphere" will have their fingerprints taken at the border. Even though the EU is a membership of collective countries, this all-powerful entity is controlling its members and telling them to do this. Likewise, using facial recognition technology on airports is exactly within scope of the EU to mandate (or outlaw).

> this all-powerful entity is controlling its members and telling them to do this.

It's members make up the rules.. To get a facial recognition ban, all members must agree to implement it. Then it becomes part of the EU standards.. Members agree to it, then implement it. Its is NOT: "Well you have to implement this because you're a member of the EU" - It does not work that way.

Re: European parliament says it will not use facial recognition tech

#29

Post by AsusFan »

weystrom wrote: post #16
AsusFan wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you read the article at all? The European Union is already planning to introduce a temporary ban on facial recognition in public spaces - PRECISELY because the technology is being rolled out throughout European cities without first assessing the impact on rights such as privacy. The story is about a leaked draft of a plan to introduce the same technology on the parliament itself - which would be inconsistent with…

> The story is about a leaked draft of a plan to introduce the same technology on the parliament itself I did, and that's what I mean. They don't want it in the parliament and yet the subway station I use every day has facial recognition system in place, there is even a sign that says "it's for your safety". I'll believe in a ban when they'll take it down.

What part of

"The European commission is expected to announce the ban this month, covering the use of the technology in stations, stadiums and shopping centres and lasting three to five years, to allow regulators time to assess the impact of the fast-developing technology."

is confusing you?

If you had followed the links, you'd know that there is a draft for the ban circulating since at least early January, and is due to come into effect sometime in February.

Again: this is being rushed through precisely because of behaviors such as the one you describe.

I fail to understand what there is to be outraged about here. Your exact complaint is in the process of being addressed (assuming you live in the EU).

Re: European parliament says it will not use facial recognition tech

#30

Post by ClumsyPilot »

tremon wrote: post #23
bilekas wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not up to the EU. Thats up to the individual countries. The EU is a memebership of collective countries, not some all powerfull entity of controlling its memebers and telling them what to do.. It's not the same as the US federal system.

Not really. Visitors from outside the EU's "trusted sphere" will have their fingerprints taken at the border. Even though the EU is a membership of collective countries, this all-powerful entity is controlling its members and telling them to do this. Likewise, using facial recognition technology on airports is exactly within scope of the EU to mandate (or outlaw).

You do know that most rules must be agreed unanimously, and every country has a veto?

Additionally, the borders aren't even managed by EU. There is shengen travel area, where countries agreed to remove internal borders and come up with one set of rules for external borders. This is entirely separate, and UK for example did not sign up to it.

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