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Using Real Names has Real Consequences

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Re: Using Real Names has Real Consequences

#21

Post by vacri »

dionidium wrote: post #13

I'm glad I didn't use my real name when I was first on the net at age 14. Why would I want a public record of ideas I now realize were (at best) half-baked? There's no upside to such a record, especially since an undiscerning reader might mistake those comments for something I said last week and not the rantings of an adolescent who hasn't exist for 15+ years. As an adult, I attach my real name to just about everythi…

Real names attached to unpopular commentary = danger.

For example, if you're in a conservative town and you're using your real name while arguing for civil rights for homosexuals, you might draw nutcases tracking you down and harrassing you for your simple viewpoints instead of engaging you in the medium you participated in. This isn't a matter of not owning what you say, but a matter of putting a layer of insulation between yourself and immature idiots.

Another issue with real names comes from identity theft - using real names makes the process a little easier. Real name + known site hack = half the job done.

Pseudonyms aren't just about trolling, they're also a social firewall.

Re: Using Real Names has Real Consequences

#22

Post by vacri »

noibl wrote: post #19
dionidium wrote: post #13

I'm glad I didn't use my real name when I was first on the net at age 14. Why would I want a public record of ideas I now realize were (at best) half-baked? There's no upside to such a record, especially since an undiscerning reader might mistake those comments for something I said last week and not the rantings of an adolescent who hasn't exist for 15+ years. As an adult, I attach my real name to just about everythi…

Pseudonyms allow a person to own what they say* without opening themselves up to retribution from people who misunderstand either the content or the context of what is said, or who take advantage of power imbalances to advance an agenda. People should not feel pressured into putting everything on the line merely for the right to speak freely. * Maybe not in the sense you mean but in a sense that I think is sufficient…

Another way of looking at it is: why does a comment from a 'real name' have any more weight than from a pseudonym? Once you've built up a body of commentary you've built up a reputation under that handle anyway.

Just recently I witnessed a heated debate between pseudonyms and the weaker of the two debaters finally said "I am Dave Foo from Sometown, Oregon - are you going to hide or man up?". The response was "I am Bill Bar from Othertown, California - what of it? You still haven't answered the questions I asked". Real names add little in terms of content of validity.

Real names aren't necessary, but if you want a reputation, you'll need to be consistent with the name you pick.

Re: Using Real Names has Real Consequences

#23

Post by vacri »

petercooper wrote: post #17

As the only person commenting here so far using my full name as my HN handle, I'll agree that there's a big difference in how one acts when using one's real name than under a pseudonym (even one based on your full name). I only maintain the habit because of my journalistic background - bylines are like gold-dust to me, even if they're on HN ;-) In my case, I back away from "crazies" and flamewars pretty quickly, rema…

I have found the opposite - by using a handle on a debate site, I've been able to float very taboo topics that have ended up being pretty illuminating and illustrative that I never would have engaged in if I was 'protecting my name and keeping away from the crazies'.

One example was in an online debate about a report of necrophiliac abuse of cadavers in a funeral home. Highly emotive topic and sets off the rage in most folks. But myself and a few others were able to look at it a bit more discretely - and through discussion examined where the harm lay: not to the person whose body was so affected (as they're dead) but to the family should they find out (you may disagree, but this helped illuminate something for me about 'bags of chemicals' vs 'human being'). This isn't to say I think necrophilia shouldn't be a crime, but that where the harm is done is somewhere other than the knee-jerkers think it is. Ultimately discussion of this ultra-taboo topic gave me insight to the human condition and was another brick in the understanding-how-things-are-instead-of-how-they-look edifice.

If I had've used my real name in a discussion like that, I would never have pursued it. Some people are blinded by rage and emotion and advancing an unpopular viewpoint is simply inviting someone stupid in the middle of a rage to do something harmful to you without rationally thinking about it. These folks are also the ones that believe that being offended gives them the right (or even the duty!) to harm you.

Re: Using Real Names has Real Consequences

#24

Post by MartinCron »

mechanical_fish wrote: post #11
steerpike wrote: post #2

I have pretty strong negative reaction to this push for more and more sites to demand a real name for signup and I'm not sure if it's a product of my internet usage history or if I actually have a valid gripe. I think it's fundamentally important that as a general principle the internet allows a person to play many parts and to play those parts under discreet, consistent personae if required. The most basic example b…

I haven't really seen a great deal of 'push back' against the practice. What exactly happens if one uses a pseudonym at Facebook or Quora? Does Big Brother come to drag you off to Room 101? Perhaps few people bother to push back against the Real Name policies because there's nothing much to push against. If I decide to use a pseudonym, I doubt that a site would rush to stop me: Better a user with a non-"real" name th…

My wife tried making a pseudonym Facebook account for helping me test FB integration on my site... Facebook refused to let her create an account with the name "Peaches Gnome"

Anyone out there who is actually named Peaches Gnome will need to prove it to Facebook. Imagine the troubles that the Zappa kids go through.

Re: Using Real Names has Real Consequences

#26

Post by nitrogen »

coderdude wrote: post #15
parfe wrote: post #8

I hate using my real name online. The most recent wikipedia fiasco involving programming languages being deleted just goes to show how dangerous it is. The poor editor who marked the articles for a delete discussion was stalked to the point of people on HN discussing the idea of contacting the guy's boss with the intent of disrupting his career in academia. And all because the guy thought an article didn't have enoug…

There are always going to be a few bad eggs out there that would just assume hurt people's real lives in order to satisfy some kind of Internet justice. It's a shame really. I prefer a handle to using my real name but even in my about and on whatever I create you can find my name on it. Check out my whois to see where I live! It's a risk I've learned to deal with as part of life as a contributing netizen.

Speaking of whois, I'm really glad I don't get the quantity of whois-based junk mail I used to see with the domain I registered ~10 years ago. That's one category of spam that seems to have improved over time.

P.S. It's a nitpick, but "just assume" should be "just as soon."

Re: Using Real Names has Real Consequences

#27

Post by evgen »

vacri wrote: post #21
dionidium wrote: post #13

I'm glad I didn't use my real name when I was first on the net at age 14. Why would I want a public record of ideas I now realize were (at best) half-baked? There's no upside to such a record, especially since an undiscerning reader might mistake those comments for something I said last week and not the rantings of an adolescent who hasn't exist for 15+ years. As an adult, I attach my real name to just about everythi…

Real names attached to unpopular commentary = danger. For example, if you're in a conservative town and you're using your real name while arguing for civil rights for homosexuals, you might draw nutcases tracking you down and harrassing you for your simple viewpoints instead of engaging you in the medium you participated in. This isn't a matter of not owning what you say, but a matter of putting a layer of insulation…

Pseudonyms may be a social firewall, but they also cheapen discourse because there is no consequence attached to speech. It may "put a layer of insulation between yourself and immature idiots", but it also is what allows those immature idiots to flourish in the first place. Communities like HN are far and away a minority on the net and a quick bounce through 4chan will show you just what speech without consequences looks like.

A true "psuedonym" would provide you with insulation, but would follow you everywhere and you would only get one.

Re: Using Real Names has Real Consequences

#28

Post by Zakharov »

There are four levels of anonymity on the Internet

1) Complete anonymitiy, e.g. 4chan - there's either no name, or it's trivially easy to change one's name. This removes any consequences from what you write, and hence often results in immature discussions.

2) Pseudononymity, e.g. HN - your writings are connected to an account, but that account isn't linked to any real-world person. People who spend a lot of time building up their pseudonym have an incentive to post constructively, but at the same time those who haven't put a lot of time in can post without consequence.

3) Unenforced real names, e.g. Facebook - When everyone's using their real names, there's a psychological pressure not to post things that are inappropriate or offensive. When are posting with people they know in real life using real names, there's a pressure to interact in the same way they would in face-to-face conversation. When people are interacting with strangers using real-names, there's pressure to interact in the same way you'd interact with a stranger in face-to-face conversation.

4) Enforced real names, e.g. official statements or blogs - When someone writes something in this form, you know that they mean what they're saying, and are willing to be held accountable for it.

Less anonymity means more valuable posts, on average, at the cost of increased consequences, less openness, and greater risk. In 4chan you can speak your mind freely, but the vast majority of the content is worthless. In official publications, you have to be careful about what you say, but it's probably going to be worthwhile, or at least grammatically correct.

One issue tangentially related to the article is that it's very difficult to prove your identity on the internet, and make statements in category (4), without sharing things that should not be made public, such as your social security number.

Re: Using Real Names has Real Consequences

#29

Post by wladimir »

coderdude wrote: post #15
parfe wrote: post #8

I hate using my real name online. The most recent wikipedia fiasco involving programming languages being deleted just goes to show how dangerous it is. The poor editor who marked the articles for a delete discussion was stalked to the point of people on HN discussing the idea of contacting the guy's boss with the intent of disrupting his career in academia. And all because the guy thought an article didn't have enoug…

There are always going to be a few bad eggs out there that would just assume hurt people's real lives in order to satisfy some kind of Internet justice. It's a shame really. I prefer a handle to using my real name but even in my about and on whatever I create you can find my name on it. Check out my whois to see where I live! It's a risk I've learned to deal with as part of life as a contributing netizen.

The WHOIS info is a good reason why I've always used anonymous registrations for my domains. Especially as it not only shows your name (which is ok sometimes), but also your address which makes it just too easy to stalk you.

Re: Using Real Names has Real Consequences

#30

Post by coderdude »

nitrogen wrote: post #26
coderdude wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are always going to be a few bad eggs out there that would just assume hurt people's real lives in order to satisfy some kind of Internet justice. It's a shame really. I prefer a handle to using my real name but even in my about and on whatever I create you can find my name on it. Check out my whois to see where I live! It's a risk I've learned to deal with as part of life as a contributing netizen.

Speaking of whois, I'm really glad I don't get the quantity of whois-based junk mail I used to see with the domain I registered ~10 years ago. That's one category of spam that seems to have improved over time. P.S. It's a nitpick, but "just assume" should be "just as soon."

Thanks for the nitpick. It never sounded quite right the way I say it. ;)
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