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Using Real Names has Real Consequences

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Re: Using Real Names has Real Consequences

#11

Post by mechanical_fish »

steerpike wrote: post #2

I have pretty strong negative reaction to this push for more and more sites to demand a real name for signup and I'm not sure if it's a product of my internet usage history or if I actually have a valid gripe. I think it's fundamentally important that as a general principle the internet allows a person to play many parts and to play those parts under discreet, consistent personae if required. The most basic example b…

I haven't really seen a great deal of 'push back' against the practice.

What exactly happens if one uses a pseudonym at Facebook or Quora? Does Big Brother come to drag you off to Room 101?

Perhaps few people bother to push back against the Real Name policies because there's nothing much to push against. If I decide to use a pseudonym, I doubt that a site would rush to stop me: Better a user with a non-"real" name than no user at all. And even if they enforce the policy, I doubt that they expend much effort. How could they? As patio11 once pointed out at great length:

http://www.kalzumeus.com/2010/06/17/falsehoods-programmers-b...

... the One True Personal Name problem is intractable. It's so difficult that entities which actually care about identity, like major governments, don't bother to solve it: They issue numbers instead.

The Real Name policies also aren't the big threat, IMHO. A company with a Real Name policy is actually being very above-board: Explicitly asking for your real name, and then visibly stamping it on everything you submit, is a clearer signal of a site's privacy policy than any actual written privacy policy. It's intuitive. People understand names, and pseudonymity, and anonymity as they apply in the real world. What they don't understand, and the source of the bigger problems, is that on the web the things that you type under a pseudonym can be traced back to you anyway -- by cookies or IP addresses or traffic analysis or cross-correlation of credit card numbers or mobile phone IDs or word frequency analysis -- and that companies like Google and Facebook are built around building those links and then selling the data. The problem with Facebook isn't the parts that are explicitly public; it's the parts that ought to be private but aren't.

Re: Using Real Names has Real Consequences

#12

Post by thesethings »

steerpike wrote: post #4
alanh wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the push back might only be visible, if you will, in lower adoption rates than we'd see otherwise; that is, so very visible at all.

I don't think you could ever describe facebook as having low adoption rates and it doesn't seem to be hugely affecting the uptake of sites like quora.

Quora has publicly stated after they added a non-Facebook login option, that registration went up a lot. They have openly questioned that call. (Though I have not seen them seek the same feedback about the real-person-only policy).

I think a lot of people who really like Facebook, still don't want it to be following them all over the rest of the web. So FB's high adoption doesn't necessarily mean people want it to use it everywhere.

Re: Using Real Names has Real Consequences

#13

Post by dionidium »

I'm glad I didn't use my real name when I was first on the net at age 14. Why would I want a public record of ideas I now realize were (at best) half-baked? There's no upside to such a record, especially since an undiscerning reader might mistake those comments for something I said last week and not the rantings of an adolescent who hasn't exist for 15+ years.

As an adult, I attach my real name to just about everything (it's on my HN user page). I might not want to own everything I said as a teenager, but if you won't own what you say at 30, then when will you?

Re: Using Real Names has Real Consequences

#14

Post by noahc »

sploink wrote: post #6

Readers might also be interested to know that anonymity is one of the things constitutionally guaranteed by the First Amendment right to free speech. This concept has been extensively examined in legal jurisprudence for many years. See, for example, https://www.eff.org/issues/anonymity

While it may have an extensive legal jurisprudence, this issue is total separate. The rights protected in the constitution relate to the state.

For example, we have a right to assemble and the state can not deny that. However, a private entity can prevent us from assembling on their property.

In the same way we have a right to anonymous speech and the state can not deny that. However, a private entity (Quora) can prevent us from making anonymous speech on their website.

The reason for this is obvious, would you want newspapers to have to allow the rantings of a raving lunatic if he used a pseudonym to sign it because it can't prevent anonymous speech?

Re: Using Real Names has Real Consequences

#15

Post by coderdude »

parfe wrote: post #8

I hate using my real name online. The most recent wikipedia fiasco involving programming languages being deleted just goes to show how dangerous it is. The poor editor who marked the articles for a delete discussion was stalked to the point of people on HN discussing the idea of contacting the guy's boss with the intent of disrupting his career in academia. And all because the guy thought an article didn't have enoug…

There are always going to be a few bad eggs out there that would just assume hurt people's real lives in order to satisfy some kind of Internet justice. It's a shame really. I prefer a handle to using my real name but even in my about and on whatever I create you can find my name on it. Check out my whois to see where I live! It's a risk I've learned to deal with as part of life as a contributing netizen.

Re: Using Real Names has Real Consequences

#16

Post by reneherse »

steerpike wrote: post #2

I have pretty strong negative reaction to this push for more and more sites to demand a real name for signup and I'm not sure if it's a product of my internet usage history or if I actually have a valid gripe. I think it's fundamentally important that as a general principle the internet allows a person to play many parts and to play those parts under discreet, consistent personae if required. The most basic example b…

What is a "real name" anyway in this context? Certainly Facebook does not require a "legal" name to sign up, and any remotely plausible name seems to work.

Several of my friends and I use full or partial pseudonyms on Facebook; (In fact, I've changed mine multiple times.) As an alternative to that, my girlfriend keeps different Facebook accounts logged into different browsers to keep her personal and professional identities separate.

Identity is fluid, seems so should the names we employ in this even more volatile medium of the web.

Re: Using Real Names has Real Consequences

#17

Post by petercooper »

As the only person commenting here so far using my full name as my HN handle, I'll agree that there's a big difference in how one acts when using one's real name than under a pseudonym (even one based on your full name). I only maintain the habit because of my journalistic background - bylines are like gold-dust to me, even if they're on HN ;-)

In my case, I back away from "crazies" and flamewars pretty quickly, remain civil at (almost) all times, and apologize (or ignore) quickly even if I really want to tear the other party a new one. But I think this is a good thing. The constant invisible axe swinging around in the room helps me keep my words and manner in check, lest I get cut.

Re: Using Real Names has Real Consequences

#18

Post by Jach »

dionidium wrote: post #13

I'm glad I didn't use my real name when I was first on the net at age 14. Why would I want a public record of ideas I now realize were (at best) half-baked? There's no upside to such a record, especially since an undiscerning reader might mistake those comments for something I said last week and not the rantings of an adolescent who hasn't exist for 15+ years. As an adult, I attach my real name to just about everythi…

"Growing up on the internet is like walking around for the rest of your life with your baby pictures stapled to your forehead."

I actually like having an archive of stuff I wrote when I was 13 (and having an archive of thoughts is a prime motivator for a blog). I don't really care what people think of my 13-year-old self, especially if my current self isn't going to ever interact with them to update their beliefs. I think it was Gandhi who said "If you see a contradiction between pieces of my writing, assume I currently believe the most recent one."

Re: Using Real Names has Real Consequences

#19

Post by noibl »

dionidium wrote: post #13

I'm glad I didn't use my real name when I was first on the net at age 14. Why would I want a public record of ideas I now realize were (at best) half-baked? There's no upside to such a record, especially since an undiscerning reader might mistake those comments for something I said last week and not the rantings of an adolescent who hasn't exist for 15+ years. As an adult, I attach my real name to just about everythi…

Pseudonyms allow a person to own what they say* without opening themselves up to retribution from people who misunderstand either the content or the context of what is said, or who take advantage of power imbalances to advance an agenda. People should not feel pressured into putting everything on the line merely for the right to speak freely.

* Maybe not in the sense you mean but in a sense that I think is sufficient -- that statements from that persona can be challenged and measured against other statements in the same context for consistency.

Re: Using Real Names has Real Consequences

#20

Post by elliottcarlson »

petercooper wrote: post #17

As the only person commenting here so far using my full name as my HN handle, I'll agree that there's a big difference in how one acts when using one's real name than under a pseudonym (even one based on your full name). I only maintain the habit because of my journalistic background - bylines are like gold-dust to me, even if they're on HN ;-) In my case, I back away from "crazies" and flamewars pretty quickly, rema…

I definitely think having your full name attached to your account makes you double check what you post - however I will still speak my mind on certain topics, even if they may seem a bit odd to post about.

I only recently decided on this route after 17 years of going by nicknames/handles. I think I am mature enough now to know how to handle what I say, and will always think twice about what possible future employers might find or anyone else from my personal life. If they have an issue with what I post under my full name, then so be it, but at this point it has been a rational decision to do so.

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