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The Shadow Inc. app that failed in Iowa last night

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Re: The Shadow Inc. app that failed in Iowa last night

#251

Let me get this straight. A company deeply embedded in the Democratic establishment (0) that has worked directly with Buttigieg — the candidate with close ties to Facebook aka the company undermining democracy since 2016 — managed to totally screw up, potentially undermining the campaign of Sanders, the anti-establishment candidate. Yeah, democracy is fucked. 0. https://theintercept.com/2020/02/04/iowa-caucus-app-sha…

If you are arguing a conspiracy of some kind it is probably best to rule out incompetence before moving on to active malfeasance. This is after all the same political party that managed rollout of the non-functioning Obamacare website.

Please provide a reason why incompetence is any likelier than malfeasance.

Re: The Shadow Inc. app that failed in Iowa last night

#252
post #250
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't post duplicate comments to HN. In addition to lowering the signal/noise ratio of the site, it creates a big pain when we go to merge threads (as happened here). If you want to refer to something you said elsewhere, please use a link.

My bad, I got emotional over the content discussed and just copy-pasted the content because it seemed like the original thread would be eclipsed. I'll make sure not to do it in the future and in general have a great appreciation for the work you do moderating HN - I imagine it is quite stressful at times.

Much appreciated! And no worries—similar things happen to everyone and we're all learning.

Re: The Shadow Inc. app that failed in Iowa last night

#253
post #119
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know whether I heard correctly or if the number was accurate, but I heard someone throw out $60k as the amount paid for the app development this morning on the radio. That sounds like a lot of money to a lay-person, but assuming $100/hr, which seems like at least a reasonable ballpark rate, that breaks down to 600 man-hours, or 15 man-weeks. That is a very tight deadline to turn out a critical app like this.…

I guess the question is why does it have to be an app? If you've got a tight budget and deadline why add all that complexity when some cgi scripts will do and may even be overkill? It looks like it's just running a webview or something anyway.

I think it was probably standard gross misunderstanding by non-technical people of what is hard vs what is easy.

Re: The Shadow Inc. app that failed in Iowa last night

#254
post #234
post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>What happens when two people share authentication (which will happen!) and access the app at the same time. If they both come from a different district and log into CouchDB they'll either only write to their file (one db, multi-user) or write to a file (or files) in their db (db per user). If two users write to same file in same the db at the same time the DB will note the conflict and decide which data gets stored…

> https://docs.couchdb.org/en/stable/replication/conflicts.htm... Yes, this is how I remember CouchDB working. It leaves the hard parts of conflic resolution up to the client app: Once you have retrieved all the conflicting revisions, your application can then choose to display them all to the user. Or it could attempt to merge them, write back the merged version, and delete the conflicting versions - that is, to res…

The window is pretty small to create a conflict in a well designed CouchDB interface because of the way revisions are used. You should get the latest revision when you load the data for editing. And it's trivial to set a "locked" flag in a file being edited to prevent others from overwriting it if you have it configured so others can do that.

In this particular use case there really should only be one authorized user who can edit the data file for each precinct so race conditions like you describe just don't exist.

You can also use CouchDB's live sync feature to push the latest revision to everyone viewing the file in close to real time.

So conflicts are really a non-issue here. By design they just don't happen.

Re: The Shadow Inc. app that failed in Iowa last night

#255
post #22
post #14

This should really be getting more attention, here is an alternative breakdown: https://imgur.com/gallery/ycOC0HX . The jest of it is one of the most important institutions in the United States (the Democratic National Committee) uses a highly nepotistic and incompetent system for managing IT which leads to colossal failures in marketing, canvassing, and security. Not to mention massive PII violations as millions of…

> But in 2016 it wasn't Well, you aren't technically wrong here, but I disagree with the sentiment. The RNC leveraged a the same kind of data used by the Obama team in '12 to squeak out an Electoral College win in `16. I think it's easy to get overly ambitious with civic tech and deliver expensive garbage. However, when people stay focused and deliver then I think the results speak for themselves. While the '12 and '…

Absolutely not. There remains 0 evidence that the microtargeting strategies employed by both the Obama and Trump campaigns did anything. It gets lots of press, but literally no one has presented anything to demonstrate that any of it moved the needle at all.

I personally worked on digital marketing campaigns for years as a data scientist in a previous job, and have become entirely disillusioned with the entire notion (and I am not alone[0]). Its largely snake oil, and its effectiveness is incredibly overblown. But literally billions of dollars, large marketing teams embedded in every company, and some of the largest tech giants on the planet all have an incentive to drink the Kool-Aid.

[0] https://thecorrespondent.com/100/the-new-dot-com-bubble-is-h...

Re: The Shadow Inc. app that failed in Iowa last night

#256
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it means anything to anyone, my sister is naming her design company after her beloved dog, Shadow.

That remains terrible branding. Branding is part of marketing. Her dog is not part of that.

Shadow is quite relevant in design with a non sinister meaning eg https://abduzeedo.com/long-shadow-design-trend

For software, dunno

Re: The Shadow Inc. app that failed in Iowa last night

#257
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know whether I heard correctly or if the number was accurate, but I heard someone throw out $60k as the amount paid for the app development this morning on the radio. That sounds like a lot of money to a lay-person, but assuming $100/hr, which seems like at least a reasonable ballpark rate, that breaks down to 600 man-hours, or 15 man-weeks. That is a very tight deadline to turn out a critical app like this.…

Why does it have to be an app? This is the part that confuse d me the most. Do it from an web page, use cloud, heck, it could even be cheaper. You only had 1000 precincts, all you had to deal with is 1000 calls - and if one of them went wrong, you'll let that person know through some kind of reviewing mechanism. I understand that $60K is nothing but this kind of failure is absurd.

For clarification sake I suspect nobody is talking about a stand alone, run-on-the-mobile-OS, never to communicate via internet application. Idk for sure (wasn’t worth the investigation), but I’m betting their “app” is just shorthand for a web service that looks like a stand alone app through the UI.

But regardless of the architectural nature of their (Shadow Inc’s) product it’s worth noting that high performing, mission critical software is challenging to do correctly. That is to say doing it with feasible, adequate solutions for security, availability, performance, testing, and usability from the end users and administrators perspectives is a whole world of responsibility for an engineering team, even if the objective seems trivial in casual conversation.

People like to characterize software projects as “easy” and almost never know the scope of what they’re talking about. Idk anything about Shadow. But judging by their lack of effective consulting on this project, and consequently allowing such a terrible product to be released, they are bad at what they do. This whole incident should go down as a lesson to folks to not screw around with silly budgets, inexperienced teams, and unrealistic timelines when looking for quality software. That the DNC or whoever doesn’t know any better is a sign of the complete cultural ignorance that otherwise functional adults in this world have about the seriousness of software as any solution to any real-world problem. Everyone is a failure in this case: Shadow, the DNC, even the commenters still misunderstanding things on this thread.

Re: The Shadow Inc. app that failed in Iowa last night

#258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are arguing a conspiracy of some kind it is probably best to rule out incompetence before moving on to active malfeasance. This is after all the same political party that managed rollout of the non-functioning Obamacare website.

Please provide a reason why incompetence is any likelier than malfeasance.

Because incompetence is vastly more common than malfeasance?

Re: The Shadow Inc. app that failed in Iowa last night

#259
post #67
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know whether I heard correctly or if the number was accurate, but I heard someone throw out $60k as the amount paid for the app development this morning on the radio. That sounds like a lot of money to a lay-person, but assuming $100/hr, which seems like at least a reasonable ballpark rate, that breaks down to 600 man-hours, or 15 man-weeks. That is a very tight deadline to turn out a critical app like this.…

60k for an app that runs results collections for the Iowa Democratic Caucus sounds absurdly low. By comparison, just to get an app like that assessed for security issues --- and my assumption is that this is not an especially complicated app --- you'd already in the neighborhood of 20k.

They probably could have done it in google forms for free. It’s absurd how much they over complicated it.
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