641–650 of 658 posts
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How much difference does 4++ vs 5 make for the predicted consequences of self-driving cars though? That's the important thing.
I would say that I would feel comfortable falling asleep in a 5 while it is driving nontrivial distance and/or road conditions, but I would not feel comfortable doing so in a 4++.
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Have you ever filled out a Captcha identifying roadsigns?
I'm not sure I follow? I'm just asking whether it's possible that the underlying processing could take place in a remote server, rather than an onboard computer in the car.
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No. You agree that you are in control of the car.
How do you control the car if you're not even in it?
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The way you suggest the future of automotive transport rests on a fast food chain drive through suggests a kind of astroturfing social media advert. If burgers were that important, the burger company would partner with the self driving car company and find a way. None of those things are physically complex - the car will be able to see or lidar if a space is big enough for it to park in, pulling over to pick up a fri…
> None of those things are physically complex I don't care about how physically complex something is. You didn't tell me how I'd tell the self driving car which spot to park in or which person on the corner is my friend. If you think this detail is minor, trivial or doesn't matter.... you are sadly mistaken. > If burgers were that important, the burger company would partner with the self driving car company and find…
Self-driving car, is the hard bit. "Who will design the smartphone app which lets me tap "go to the nearest mcdonalds drive thru"?" is the easy bit. Almost anyone on any $5/hour microconsulting web developer site could do that bit.
"Oh but who would buy an iPhone if it can't let me control the filesystem? You can't answer, nobody can tell me, it's impossible, the tech can't exist, everybody is stupid" - nope, it sold by the hundreds of millions.
Where will it stop? It will stop wherever there is a space. Maybe you can mash your finger on your app for "closest space right now" or maybe you'll get bored of doing that because it already does "closest available space to the chosen destination" because that makes sense.
"One disabled person will get wet in the rain so the tech can't exist" - most tech ignores disabled people completely, and sells in large numbers.
"I can't voice control tell it to go through a drive through so nobody will use it" - if it matters that much to people in general, mctakeout will partner with car company, let you drive up in your fancy car, and they will walk the food out to you. I'm more worried that the cars will come with a "take me to the nearest McDonalds" physical dashboard button, than that no cars have any way to instruct them to go anywhere off-route ever.
"your $70,000 self driving car" - I don't think most self-driving cars will be owned by individuals, but what does price have to do with it? People buy supercars which can't drive through narrow, bumpy, steep, city areas, there is a market for them. Why do you think there will be only a single self-driving car design which has a binary appeal to everybody or nobody, and therefore must be a single answer to how you will control it, and that there's no room for iteration so it must be conclusively decided and locked in several years before any such car even exists or its capabilities are understood and settled?
"So seriously, how will I command this self-driving car?" - so, seriously, driving two tons of machine around a busy unpredictable space is something you're fine with, but having some buttons is what you think the impossibly dealbreaker is? Touchscreens are an appalling human interface, and having almost every control in a touchscreen hasn't stopped Tesla customers.
"Nobody seems to be able to answer this or even thought about it in any amount of detail at all. Probably because we are so far away from an actual self driving car that a realistic answer doesn't really matter at all." - Yes, good point. Nobody has settled on the trivia, because the trivia is not a dealbreaker compared to whether the car can exist at all. It's like you're obsessing over what font the Dragon space capsule will use on its readout displays, and saying that human spaceflight is all hype because "nobody has thought about it in detail".
But no, surely everyone involved is just stupid for not prioritising shovelling burgers into your face over getting you from A to B without killing you or anyone around you.
"Every time you ask about a specific detail it gets hand waved away as not important" - you asked about details, I gave plausible answers (you won't have the level of control you demand) - you completely ignored my answers because you don't want that (you can't answer! ya boo sucks you can't answer!) and then whine that nobody will give you answers.
"You add up all these edge cases that "don't matter" and you've excluded almost your entire market." - I am still boggled that you are putting "can drive through a drive thru" as if that was a thing people actually do enough to influence their choice of car purchase. Can commute to work? Is affordable? Is safe? Is reliable? Has reasonable maintenance and insurance costs? Is big enough for all the people? Can carry enough luggage? Looks OK? All way more important after the dominating "can actually self drive".
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> None of those things are physically complex I don't care about how physically complex something is. You didn't tell me how I'd tell the self driving car which spot to park in or which person on the corner is my friend. If you think this detail is minor, trivial or doesn't matter.... you are sadly mistaken. > If burgers were that important, the burger company would partner with the self driving car company and find…
> I don't understand why so many smart "tech people" fall for the hype. Maybe it's just that some of these "tech people" are not that smart at all? > And that is the problem with self-driving hype. Every time you ask about a specific detail it gets hand waved away as not important or some kind of edge case that doesn't matter. I think you are you spot-on with that analysis. Way too much hand-waving going on. But that…
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No. You agree that you are in control of the car.
How do you control the car if you're not even in it?
Some people have problems with it, but it works great for me. It's pretty awesome to have the car pull up to me on a rainy day. Part of it is parking in a smart place on the way in.
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> I remember when credit cards I have one because I need it for online booking, my first one was revoked because I apparently cost them more by not using it enough. I practically don't see a significant benefit, most places accept other forms of payment. > caller ID faked and missing all the time. > subject to a machine built of (per A.C.Clarke) pure magic. As a software dev. I really would feel much safer with pure…
You're the anomaly. Most people find "swipe and pay later" far more convenient, "pizza shop already knows where to deliver" & "oh it's Joe, I'd better answer" far more convenient, etc. Yes they're imperfect, but the flaws aren't "all the time" - they're lost amid the overwhelming convenience. Opposite your "complex piece of software that can reliably control a car" is "humans who damage/injure/maim/kill other drivers…
As I said most places accept other options of payment and the pay later part seems completely irrelevant unless you have money management issues.
> "oh it's Joe, I'd better answer"
Usually it fails for people I know. Which makes it anoying since I usually can call back my mother later as she tends to call every few days, but have to answer when its my landlord who only calls when I missed something important.
> but rapidly reaching the point where even the existing & concerning bugs are better than facing distracted/drunk/debilitated/dumb human drivers.
Amount of drunk drivers I face daily on average: 0.0001. Amount of self driving cars is see daily if we adopt them completely: ~500.
I would still take my risk with running into that one drunk driver over several thousand buggy cars daily.
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Honestly, I think I'm fine piloting a Tesla through a drive-through if it means I can eat on the road. I'll take 80% of possible performance / [aptitude?] now (heck, even 50-60%, as long as it's safe enough) versus 100% of possible scenarios being covered at some far-off point, especia)y if my enjoying 50-60% of capability actively gets the remaining % closer.
Too bad you are judgment impaired cause you are drunk. Always remember, you have to assume people in these self driving cars are drunk / high.
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Realtime has nothing to do with absolute performance. It's about meeting your deadlines. And, of course, often real-time systems have much worse throughput performance than a non-real-time system on the same hardware. After all, latency guarantees are not free.
Yup. I think we agree on that. It doesn't matter if you have a highly performant pipeline for detecting other cars if you have a random 200 ms VM pause as another car blows a stop sign in front of you.
The bigger problem is that what you might actually be getting is (almost) arbitrarily long pauses with a long tailed distribution. So sometimes 200ms, rarely a second, and every once in a while perhaps two seconds, etc; and no guarantees on the longest pause.
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Realtime has nothing to do with absolute performance. It's about meeting your deadlines. And, of course, often real-time systems have much worse throughput performance than a non-real-time system on the same hardware. After all, latency guarantees are not free.
Yeah, until we're above 500Hz I'd rather have a significantly faster non-realtime main system, with a small realtime watchdog/backup.
And yes, in practice you will probably combine a small real-time core with most of the code (by volume) running non-real time. Lots of one-time setup at the beginning of the right, or longer-range route replanning doesn't need to finish within tight deadlines. The human analogue is your co-pilot reading the map; or when you are fiddling with the aircon or radio dial.