Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Shadow Inc. app that failed in Iowa last night

vice.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 399 posts

Re: The Shadow Inc. app that failed in Iowa last night

#91

Post by dang »

tmpz22 wrote: post #2

This should really be getting more attention, here is an alternative breakdown: https://imgur.com/gallery/ycOC0HX . The jest of it is one of the most important institutions in the United States (the Democratic National Committee) uses a highly nepotistic and incompetent system for managing IT which leads to colossal failures in marketing, canvassing, and security. Not to mention massive PII violates as millions of em…

Please don't post duplicate comments to HN. In addition to lowering the signal/noise ratio of the site, it creates a big pain when we go to merge threads (as happened here).

If you want to refer to something you said elsewhere, please use a link.

Re: The Shadow Inc. app that failed in Iowa last night

#92

Post by redisman »

mdavidn wrote: post #38
oblib wrote: post #6

I think the author's take on this is a bit heavy with hyperbole, but there's no doubt Iowa was a mess last night. My son was there working as volunteer, and so was his ex-girlfriend, who's still a close family friend. I was chatting with them both throughout the evening and into the wee hours this morning. They worked different locations in the Des Moines metro area and the results they reported to me were pretty clo…

Any database should work just fine for this application. 1678 precincts. 11 candidates. 2 rounds. That's 37 thousand records to fully represent everything.

Yes bad analysis-by-cool-new-tech above. Just throw it in a tiny MySQL instance it's totally fine, this is toy-project levels of data.

Re: The Shadow Inc. app that failed in Iowa last night

#93

Post by atwebb »

nooron wrote: post #44

I started a company that was asked to write a proposal to make what became the app that failed last night. I declined because it was outside of our core skillset. You can read my prior comments or look at my profile to validate this. If you want my perspective as someone who started a Democratic software company, you should keep reading. This app emerged from a mandate to make the caucus more accessible and transpare…

Sounds like Hanlon's Razor in practice.

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor

Re: The Shadow Inc. app that failed in Iowa last night

#94

Post by bluehat »

nooron wrote: post #66
whylie wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Shadow is a firm that makes custom software for Democrats and progressives. If I can ask, why the specific nature for their clientele? Isolating your solutions to a specific political party seems strange to me especially if the emphasis on making money. If anything, money normally supersedes political leanings at the end of the day which makes the whole fiasco even stranger to me. Wouldn't you want to provide a solu…

Hey, I'm really glad you asked, and I'm happy to share. The reason that most people start companies in politics is because they have strong political leanings. You do it because you believe strongly in something or someone and want to support it, even if it pays less or sucks. Even if you wanted to cross the aisle, it would be hard. If you work for Democrats, Republicans will not work with you. If you work for Republ…

Going to especially second that last bit. Not everybody is expressly data science, but most companies start running into some sort of data at one point or another.

Campaigns aren't wrong to be concerned about who has their data. There is good historical reason for them to be skeptical that security on your system will be strong enough to prevent customers from accessing other customer's data. https://time.com/4155185/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-data...

Now imagine getting buy-in for using customer data to improve your models.

I can't blame campaigns for being paranoid about vendors potentially going across the aisle. NationBuilder is one of the only big names I know that does it. They are in a unique and unenviable position given the death grip NGP VAN has, and they pay a big price for it on nearly every front.

Re: The Shadow Inc. app that failed in Iowa last night

#95

Post by robomartin »

nooron wrote: post #44

I started a company that was asked to write a proposal to make what became the app that failed last night. I declined because it was outside of our core skillset. You can read my prior comments or look at my profile to validate this. If you want my perspective as someone who started a Democratic software company, you should keep reading. This app emerged from a mandate to make the caucus more accessible and transpare…

Please educate me on something. I fail to understand why "making custom software for " is something anyone would want to do in the context of owning and growing a real business. This seems fraught with all kinds of issues.

First of all (and it seems I've been using this word a lot lately) this turns software development into a religion rather than a business with solid business strategy. The equivalent in other businesses, like the entertainment industry, are people who do work for stars for nothing or nearly nothing because they think it will lead somewhere. All they get is a weird and abusive form of servitude (I've seen this first hand) and no future.

Why would someone not write software for politics instead and make part of their value proposition that they are not biased (and, of course, take the steps necessary to actually deliver that).

We have a close relative in South America who owns a company that makes and markets voting hardware and software. They are not aligned with any specific political party, movement or cult. They sell to everyone, in and outside South America and have a very nice business.

Re: The Shadow Inc. app that failed in Iowa last night

#96

Post by nooron »

robomartin wrote: post #95
nooron wrote: post #44

I started a company that was asked to write a proposal to make what became the app that failed last night. I declined because it was outside of our core skillset. You can read my prior comments or look at my profile to validate this. If you want my perspective as someone who started a Democratic software company, you should keep reading. This app emerged from a mandate to make the caucus more accessible and transpare…

Please educate me on something. I fail to understand why "making custom software for " is something anyone would want to do in the context of owning and growing a real business. This seems fraught with all kinds of issues. First of all (and it seems I've been using this word a lot lately) this turns software development into a religion rather than a business with solid business strategy. The equivalent in other busin…

Hey, I appreciate your comment and I'm happy to share. It is very hard to make into a real business, very few people have succeeded. You do it because you believe in a cause or a candidate or a party.

As far as why people don't sell to everyone, the above explains a lot. Another explanation is that political sales (which is different from true election tech, which is purchased by governments) are driven by trust and personal relationships. Once you work for one party in the US, the other will not trust you.

Re: The Shadow Inc. app that failed in Iowa last night

#97

Post by charred_toast »

bluehat wrote: post #77
charred_toast wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it means anything to anyone, my sister is naming her design company after her beloved dog, Shadow.

That remains terrible branding. Branding is part of marketing. Her dog is not part of that.

Wow, can I hire you? You seem to be dripping with expertise, and so charming.

Re: The Shadow Inc. app that failed in Iowa last night

#98

Post by nooron »

bluehat wrote: post #94
nooron wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, I'm really glad you asked, and I'm happy to share. The reason that most people start companies in politics is because they have strong political leanings. You do it because you believe strongly in something or someone and want to support it, even if it pays less or sucks. Even if you wanted to cross the aisle, it would be hard. If you work for Democrats, Republicans will not work with you. If you work for Republ…

Going to especially second that last bit. Not everybody is expressly data science, but most companies start running into some sort of data at one point or another. Campaigns aren't wrong to be concerned about who has their data. There is good historical reason for them to be skeptical that security on your system will be strong enough to prevent customers from accessing other customer's data. https://time.com/4155185…

I agree with all this. To your point, NationBuilder has been nearly shut out of the Democratic Party at anything above the local level as a result of serving Trump in 2016.

Re: The Shadow Inc. app that failed in Iowa last night

#99

Post by Multiplayer »

briandear wrote: post #57
ch4s3 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But in 2016 it wasn't Well, you aren't technically wrong here, but I disagree with the sentiment. The RNC leveraged a the same kind of data used by the Obama team in '12 to squeak out an Electoral College win in `16. I think it's easy to get overly ambitious with civic tech and deliver expensive garbage. However, when people stay focused and deliver then I think the results speak for themselves. While the '12 and '…

> to squeak out an Electoral College win in `16. 304 to 227 wasn’t a “squeak”

It is actually to my thinking.

There is some analysis that boils down to the below:

“He concluded, with help from The Cook Political Report, that the election hinged not on Clinton's large 2.8 million overall vote margin over Trump, but rather on about 78,000 votes from only three counties in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Michigan (by the same logic, Obama won in 2012 due to three counties in Florida, Ohio, and Pennsylvania)

That’s definitely a squeak.

Re: The Shadow Inc. app that failed in Iowa last night

#100

Post by dv_dt »

war1025 wrote: post #59
nooron wrote: post #44

I started a company that was asked to write a proposal to make what became the app that failed last night. I declined because it was outside of our core skillset. You can read my prior comments or look at my profile to validate this. If you want my perspective as someone who started a Democratic software company, you should keep reading. This app emerged from a mandate to make the caucus more accessible and transpare…

I don't know whether I heard correctly or if the number was accurate, but I heard someone throw out $60k as the amount paid for the app development this morning on the radio. That sounds like a lot of money to a lay-person, but assuming $100/hr, which seems like at least a reasonable ballpark rate, that breaks down to 600 man-hours, or 15 man-weeks. That is a very tight deadline to turn out a critical app like this.…

The LA Times reports two Dem state parties, Iowa and Nevada, each put in $60k. Still clearly inadequate.

https://www.latimes.com/business/technology/story/2020-02-04...

Edit: Nevada has since said they will not use the app and are looking at backup options

Post reply on HN