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Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

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Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#591

Post by modeless »

microcolonel wrote: post #483
modeless wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cars don't randomly accelerate at 100,000m/s/s in some direction they aren't pointed What if they are hit by a truck? Maybe not 100,000 m/s^2 but if you assume that cars can't accelerate in directions they aren't pointed, you will be wrong at the worst possible time.

That's why I elaborate, and why I chose that number. The only way something actually accelerates like that is an error, or it's an error.

A threshold that high will be useless as it will miss most errors. A threshold low enough to catch most errors will reject some valid data. A naive approach like that will not work.

A better approach would be to include temporal data in the inputs to the neural net so it can learn how to do the prediction and filtering itself using all the context available in the input imagery, instead of processing each frame completely independently and feeding low-dimensional symbolic results into some other system. But you'd need a very large dataset and a very large neural net.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#592

Post by monk_e_boy »

VvR-Ox wrote: post #582
coherentpony wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much of the Google video is eyecandy versus actual processing imagery?

Fake it until you make it ;-) That reminds me of all the "AI power" we already use which is backed by low-wage contract workers who listen in.

Google search was curated by humans for a long time. Last guy I met who was doing it, now works for an SEO firm. Things like house insurance, medical insurance etc is highly hand tweaked.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#593

Post by notyourwork »

toast0 wrote: post #553
jjallen wrote: post #526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ancedote: this evening in Mountain View, the driver of one of Waymo's test vans had to take over (I watched her grab the wheel). The van had come to a complete stop with room to pass a USPS truck (it appeared safe to me from 25 feet away), and didn't begin moving again for a few seconds. She then took control.

The waymo cars have always been timid. That's why most of the collisions involve the waymo car getting rear ended. They don't move when other drivers expect them to. Of course, this is annoying, and being so timid that you get rear ended is unsafe, but the Tesla approach would be the delivery truck is detected as a stationary object and ignored, so the vehicle would accelerate to the set speed in 3 seconds and slam i…

> Of course, Tesla will tell you that their car isn't really self-driving with one side of their mouth, while telling you your car is equipped for self-driving out of the other side.

This is my biggest worry with the way this is promoted. It’s false advertising and misleading to consumers. I wish more companies (in all industries) would be held accountable to accurately portray what they are selling.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#594

Post by jiofih »

Animats wrote: post #472

Compare Google's system from five years ago.[1] (at 7:42) This new video is at n00b level compared to that. [1] https://embed.ted.com/talks/chris_urmson_how_a_driverless_ca...

Your comment makes no sense. Besides the fact that this is showing Lidar scans with depth and 3D textures (does look cooler), the relevant part which is feature detection is a lot poorer. It doesn’t seem to detect lane markers or boundaries, sidewalks, traffic signs, or show path estimates like you can clearly see in the Tesla video. Plus the texturing implies the route is pre-mapped while Autopilot is doing all the work in real time.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#595

Post by jiofih »

thdrdt wrote: post #590
Animats wrote: post #472

Compare Google's system from five years ago.[1] (at 7:42) This new video is at n00b level compared to that. [1] https://embed.ted.com/talks/chris_urmson_how_a_driverless_ca...

After seeing reviews of the Tesla Autopilot vs Openpilot it became clear to me it is way to early to trust Tesla's Autopilot (and Openpilot). They both use visuals only and are easily confused when situations are a little different than 'normal'. I even think Openpilot performed a little better than Autopilot but because Openpilot only has a forward looking camera it fails often on tight corners. Google on the other…

Tesla’s system can still estimate where the car should be without markings, just like humans do with their vision.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#596

Post by nxpnsv »

mda wrote: post #583
nxpnsv wrote: post #564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I CAN afford a Tesla...

I was just answering to the claim "when just the lidar for a waymo car costs more than the entire tesla vehicle". Which is clearly wrong. The tesla you can afford still does not have self driving capabilities either btw.

I made this joke as I found disparity between the message its reply humorous. If you disagree, feel free to ignore my comment. That aside, it is quite cool how Waymo cut costs by 90%: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2017/01/googles-waymo-invests-i... (perhaps there are newer developments of which I am not aware). The old numbers indeed exceed the price of most teslas...

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#597

Post by rahulnair23 »

brokenmachine wrote: post #537
rahulnair23 wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd suggest reading the NTSB report on the pedestrian killed by Uber's "self-driving" vehicle [0]. The vehicle misclassified Elaine Herzberg so many times in the seconds leading up to taking her out at 40 mph - its clear to me that none of this is ready for public use. We are so normalised to vehicular violence. This would never be allowed in any other sector, say healthcare for instance. [0] https://www.ntsb.gov/new…

Which document describes where it "misclassified Elaine Herzberg so many times"?

Here is a revised link [1] to the full report. Table 1, on Page 10 shows a summary.

[1] https://dms.ntsb.gov/pubdms/search/document.cfm?docID=477717...

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#598

Post by allovernow »

yogrish wrote: post #507
Animats wrote: post #472

Compare Google's system from five years ago.[1] (at 7:42) This new video is at n00b level compared to that. [1] https://embed.ted.com/talks/chris_urmson_how_a_driverless_ca...

Please understand, Tesla works only with only Camera & Radars (at L2 level). Where as Google Waymo works with pretty expensive and lot of redundant sensors ie., 360degree LIDAR, cameras & Radars (at L4 level). Tesla sells vehicles in volumes, Waymo doesn't (as it is exhorbitant). Hence comparison is not apple to apple. I do agree Visualisation in the google video is more appealing. I assume Tesla also has state of ar…

Waymo may be planning to develop overpriced self driving cars to gather data automatically for cheap self driving cars while simultaneously experimenting.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#599

Post by unexaminedlife »

Animats wrote: post #472

Compare Google's system from five years ago.[1] (at 7:42) This new video is at n00b level compared to that. [1] https://embed.ted.com/talks/chris_urmson_how_a_driverless_ca...

I have mixed feelings about this. I realize the number and types of sensors that exist in Waymo's cars provide far more data to the driverless car. But then when I really think about it, humans have been driving with only 2 sensors (eyes) for a long time with relatively good success. With the improvement of computer algorithms to help the cars make better decisions than humans, I'm not 100% sure if the long-term solution will require all the extra sensors.

My guess is the added sensors may get Waymo to market sooner, but if Tesla can commoditize this technology for far cheaper they will win in the end.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#600

Post by rimliu »

aeternum wrote: post #105
wenc wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. In theory, 4 way stops follow some simple rules -- whoever gets there first and makes a full stop goes first, and if more than one party makes a full stop at the same time, the party on the right goes first. In practice we live in a world of (very illegal) rolling stops, people beckoning at each other to go first, people inching forward, etc. That's not even considering some very stupidly designed four-way stops…

Even the theory is not that clean cut. What if two cars arrive simultaneously at opposite sides of the 4-way and are both turning left? This could easily deadlock two self-driving cars if not considered.

Your situation is a bit ambiguous. Do you mean they turn to their respective left (in that case their trajectories should not intersect), or to the same left? Not sure about USA, but where I am from the right of the way belongs to the driver who turns to the same side as the side of the road they are on, i.e. to his right (we drive on the right side).
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