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When a cleaner finds 5 euros at a Finnish office

finland.fi

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Re: When a cleaner finds 5 euros at a Finnish office

#51

Post by jonathanstrange »

badpun wrote: post #25
kortilla wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet nearly identical risk percentage of poverty as the US: https://countryeconomy.com/countries/compare/finland/usa?sc=... Maybe the key difference is that poverty is better hidden in Finland with more available shelters?

I'm sceptical about the concept of poverty as defined by the economists. They seem to define poverty as being unable to live a consumerist lifestyle, and not being genuinely poor. In the US, the poverty threshold for a single person is about $1000 per month. However, for that amount of money, I think you can get shelter, food, clothing and live in material comfort (or at least lack of evident discomfort) - you're clo…

I'd be rather sceptical about poverty comparisons between the US and other countries, because the US is one of the few countries that doesn't officially accept relative poverty measures. This means that in reality poor people in the US may be much poorer in international comparison than it might seem on paper. Sometimes the comparisons are adjusted or correct, because they are not based on absolute measures, but I'd rather check the source of the figures first to see how poverty was measured in each country.

The public should care about relative poverty, since social mobility and social stigma hinge almost solely on that and not on absolute poverty (for which the threshold is usually set in whatever lowest possible way that pleases politicians). Children of the poorest families have almost no chances of breaking out of that life, leading to ghettos, social unrest, criminal gangs, drug abuse, etc. You just have to go to Skid Row in L.A. to see the effects of poverty in action. There is a photographer who currently documents poverty and other problems in the US on Youtube, it's a very interesting watch.[1]

[1] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCvcd0FYi58LwyTQP9LITpA

Re: When a cleaner finds 5 euros at a Finnish office

#52

Post by ganzuul »

mxcrossb wrote: post #26
paganel wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because many people wrongly assume that those people who happen to be lower paid (in this case, a cleaner) also have higher chances of being “thieves” or of having lower moral standards, and as such it comes as a surprise to them when they find out that cleaners (for this example) are just like everybody else. I find it incredible classist, but I don’t think that’s anything much that can be done, this attitude is too…

It’s interesting that the point of the article seems to be “look how trusting Finnish people are of others”, and yet the take away from the story might be “Finnish people were surprised by the trustworthy behavior of a cleaner”

It's an anecdote, but my mother was certain a cleaner she once had over after winning a gift card for such had stolen something. After a few years she found the thing.

Not her normal behavior. She is usually much too trusting. Apparently people are territorial.

Re: When a cleaner finds 5 euros at a Finnish office

#53

Post by vardump »

leke wrote: post #46

I've been living in Finland for the last 20 years, and this story is pretty accurate. I've dropped a wallet to have the finder hand it in to the nearest supermarket, who then contacted me to pick it up. People typically write their names or phone numbers on bus cards, in case something similar happens. Lose a phone? Go to the police station. It's usually been handed in. If you lose something, you can expect to get it…

This is my experience as well. Whatever you lose, you're going to get it back.

Re: When a cleaner finds 5 euros at a Finnish office

#54

Post by emilfihlman »

systemtest wrote: post #2

> I guess this is your tip now. You deserve it! Found the American. Just as a heads up. We don't tip the cleaner. Or anyone else. And while Finland doesn't have minimum wage, collective agreements specify minimum pay rates so the cleaner will always be paid a liveable wage.

We don't tip the cleaner.

But if somebody finds money and nobody accepts it, "that's your tip now" is not un-Finnish at all.

Re: When a cleaner finds 5 euros at a Finnish office

#55

Post by Mediterraneo10 »

asdko13roasi wrote: post #23
jedberg wrote: post #7

My first time in Finland was last May (incidentally to give a talk at Smartly in the very office featured in the photo). I love Finland. You can tell from the moment you arrive that the entire country cares about the welfare of everyone there. It started when we got on the train from the airport. We were told that not only do kids ride public transit for free, but anyone pushing their stroller does too. Talk about su…

>what I didn't see anywhere were homeless people or beggars Romanian beggars are a common sight during warmer months.

In spite of the belief among many Helsinki residents that these are all "Romanian beggars", a substantial number of these Roma beggars – and in at least one summer the majority – have come from Bulgaria. Yes, some of them are from Romania, but I don’t know why Romania is the sole country ever mentioned in this context. I suppose it is an inability to distinguish between the terms romanilainen (Roma) and romanialainen (Romanian) which, despite sounding similar, are not even etymologically related.

Re: When a cleaner finds 5 euros at a Finnish office

#56

Post by xornox »

baddox wrote: post #33
jedberg wrote: post #7

My first time in Finland was last May (incidentally to give a talk at Smartly in the very office featured in the photo). I love Finland. You can tell from the moment you arrive that the entire country cares about the welfare of everyone there. It started when we got on the train from the airport. We were told that not only do kids ride public transit for free, but anyone pushing their stroller does too. Talk about su…

How easy is it to immigrate to Finland and enjoy these advantages of Finnish society? If it’s easy, then I wonder why more people don’t do it. If it’s difficult, then it feels a little disingenuous to praise a society for privileging the people who just so happen to be born there. Obviously I’m not discounting the notion than certain societies can treat people better than other societies. I’m only trying to point out…

Language is one of the main reasons for low immigration. Local employers expect very often Finnish speaking skills. Even highly educated foreigners may have difficulties to find a job because of this, often ridiculous and unnecessary requirement.

Re: When a cleaner finds 5 euros at a Finnish office

#58

Post by badpun »

sethammons wrote: post #49
badpun wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sceptical about the concept of poverty as defined by the economists. They seem to define poverty as being unable to live a consumerist lifestyle, and not being genuinely poor. In the US, the poverty threshold for a single person is about $1000 per month. However, for that amount of money, I think you can get shelter, food, clothing and live in material comfort (or at least lack of evident discomfort) - you're clo…

Where can $1k/mo. provide that? I live in nowhere Montana and the cheapest rent I could just find was $650/mo before utilities ($900/mo. in the town I went to high school at in California in a mobile home park, so it likely did not count space rent). Utilities: I'm not sure. I have a big place; I can spend as much as $600/mo in winter or $200/mo in summer. Let's say someone can get by on $100/mo. That $1k is gone in…

Quick lookup revealed rooms for rent in Montana from $275/month. You won't have a whole place for yourself, but that in itself is an inflated modern standard.

Re: When a cleaner finds 5 euros at a Finnish office

#59

Post by Teever »

Traubenfuchs wrote: post #36
Teever wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally. This was my first thought when I skimmed the article. Now I wonder who is paying for it, the Finnish gov't or the company mentioned in the article? I speculate that it may be part of a PR campaign from the government to draw skilled people from the US. It seems to coincide with recent comments about the American Dream by the Finnish PM.

The website is sponsored by the Ministry for Foreign Affairs of Finland...

lol, well that's what I get for skimming...

At lease my interpretation of the article was correct, I guess.

Re: When a cleaner finds 5 euros at a Finnish office

#60

Post by buzer »

Teever wrote: post #35
Traubenfuchs wrote: post #16

This is clearly an artificial, manufactured viral marketing campaign. Hash tag added for extra cringe. Ridiculous.

Totally. This was my first thought when I skimmed the article. Now I wonder who is paying for it, the Finnish gov't or the company mentioned in the article? I speculate that it may be part of a PR campaign from the government to draw skilled people from the US. It seems to coincide with recent comments about the American Dream by the Finnish PM.

Very unlikely. It was originally posted in Twitter, then apparently first reported in some Italian newspaper (as the guy was Italian). Afterwards it got reported in couple of Finnish newpapers & sites. I think this was the first time I saw Smartly being mentioned as the company where it happened (usually it was just "digital marketing company").
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