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When a cleaner finds 5 euros at a Finnish office

finland.fi

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Re: When a cleaner finds 5 euros at a Finnish office

#41

Post by fabianmg »

asdko13roasi wrote: post #23
jedberg wrote: post #7

My first time in Finland was last May (incidentally to give a talk at Smartly in the very office featured in the photo). I love Finland. You can tell from the moment you arrive that the entire country cares about the welfare of everyone there. It started when we got on the train from the airport. We were told that not only do kids ride public transit for free, but anyone pushing their stroller does too. Talk about su…

>what I didn't see anywhere were homeless people or beggars Romanian beggars are a common sight during warmer months.

Romanian beggars are common all around Europe.

Re: When a cleaner finds 5 euros at a Finnish office

#42

Post by leke »

baddox wrote: post #33
jedberg wrote: post #7

My first time in Finland was last May (incidentally to give a talk at Smartly in the very office featured in the photo). I love Finland. You can tell from the moment you arrive that the entire country cares about the welfare of everyone there. It started when we got on the train from the airport. We were told that not only do kids ride public transit for free, but anyone pushing their stroller does too. Talk about su…

How easy is it to immigrate to Finland and enjoy these advantages of Finnish society? If it’s easy, then I wonder why more people don’t do it. If it’s difficult, then it feels a little disingenuous to praise a society for privileging the people who just so happen to be born there. Obviously I’m not discounting the notion than certain societies can treat people better than other societies. I’m only trying to point out…

I believe it's no more difficult then any other EU country. I was engaged to a Finn and I was accepted on those grounds, even though I didn't have work. When I got married, I could attend the immigrant integration course (maahanmuuttajakoulutus), which included an intensive language learning program.

I'm an EU citizen, and I believe EU citizens can live in Finland if they have employment.

Re: When a cleaner finds 5 euros at a Finnish office

#43

Post by sharpneli »

kortilla wrote: post #20
jedberg wrote: post #7

My first time in Finland was last May (incidentally to give a talk at Smartly in the very office featured in the photo). I love Finland. You can tell from the moment you arrive that the entire country cares about the welfare of everyone there. It started when we got on the train from the airport. We were told that not only do kids ride public transit for free, but anyone pushing their stroller does too. Talk about su…

Yet nearly identical risk percentage of poverty as the US: https://countryeconomy.com/countries/compare/finland/usa?sc=... Maybe the key difference is that poverty is better hidden in Finland with more available shelters?

It’s about definition of poverty. It is defined as some percentage of average income.

Finnish poor has an apartment paid by government etc.

There are shelters too, as our system cannot handle those who drink their rent money well.

Re: When a cleaner finds 5 euros at a Finnish office

#44

Post by kwhitefoot »

badpun wrote: post #25
kortilla wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet nearly identical risk percentage of poverty as the US: https://countryeconomy.com/countries/compare/finland/usa?sc=... Maybe the key difference is that poverty is better hidden in Finland with more available shelters?

I'm sceptical about the concept of poverty as defined by the economists. They seem to define poverty as being unable to live a consumerist lifestyle, and not being genuinely poor. In the US, the poverty threshold for a single person is about $1000 per month. However, for that amount of money, I think you can get shelter, food, clothing and live in material comfort (or at least lack of evident discomfort) - you're clo…

Poverty in Europe is usually defined as having an income of less than some fraction of median income. For instance in Norway and the UK this is 60% of median disposable income. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_Norway and https://www.nourishcommunityfoodbank.org.uk/docs/The_definit....

That is, poverty is relative to the environment in which one finds oneself. And we should care if only because someone without a reliable car, a mobile capable of doing the things that need to be done like banking, tolerable accommodation, etc., eventually becomes a burden for the rest of us, disaffected, disenfranchised, unable to participate in society. And that goes double for their children.

And of course we should care because they are humans too.

Re: When a cleaner finds 5 euros at a Finnish office

#45

Post by maeln »

baddox wrote: post #33
jedberg wrote: post #7

My first time in Finland was last May (incidentally to give a talk at Smartly in the very office featured in the photo). I love Finland. You can tell from the moment you arrive that the entire country cares about the welfare of everyone there. It started when we got on the train from the airport. We were told that not only do kids ride public transit for free, but anyone pushing their stroller does too. Talk about su…

How easy is it to immigrate to Finland and enjoy these advantages of Finnish society? If it’s easy, then I wonder why more people don’t do it. If it’s difficult, then it feels a little disingenuous to praise a society for privileging the people who just so happen to be born there. Obviously I’m not discounting the notion than certain societies can treat people better than other societies. I’m only trying to point out…

Finland is part of the EU, so it is very easy to immigrate there if you are from one of the member country.

If you are not, it is still not that hard (comparing to some other EU country). I actually had some member of my step family immigrating to Finland, and ultimately getting the citizenship. The administration is very helpful and provide a lot of help for people who immigrating to Finland (like full time language classes, which a lot of country don't do).

Finland is a small country, so they are usually very open to qualified immigration because they usually have more position than what they can provide nationwide. Having company where the official work language is English says a lot about that.

> If it’s easy, then I wonder why more people don’t do it.

Why everybody is not moving to Finland is usually the weather and the language which is considered difficult (but very interesting) for people who don't know a ural/altaic language. Also, not everybody want to move out of their country and leave their friends and familly.

> If it’s difficult, then it feels a little disingenuous to praise a society for privileging the people who just so happen to be born there.

Well, this is a concept of nation. I would like to live in a world without border but this is not reality. You cannot criticize a country for treating their citizen good.

Re: When a cleaner finds 5 euros at a Finnish office

#46

Post by leke »

I've been living in Finland for the last 20 years, and this story is pretty accurate. I've dropped a wallet to have the finder hand it in to the nearest supermarket, who then contacted me to pick it up. People typically write their names or phone numbers on bus cards, in case something similar happens. Lose a phone? Go to the police station. It's usually been handed in.

If you lose something, you can expect to get it back, unlike what I've found to be the case in my home country (UK). People just tend to look out for each other here.

Re: When a cleaner finds 5 euros at a Finnish office

#47

Post by maeln »

vhakulinen wrote: post #27
versale wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually I was offered to give a tip at "O'Leary's" in the IsoOmena mall (Espoo) when paying the bill with my Visa Electron. It felt awkward and I've been avoiding the place since then.

More and more places are "offering to give a tip" at least in Helsinki when paying by card. The machine asks if you want to give some or not. Its... weird.

This as been happening in France also. We were also never giving tips before because there is a minimum wage but now, almost every bar & restaurant do it.

I wonder if it is not some form of US cultural influence. We see people tipping in series, films and such and start to do it to.

Re: When a cleaner finds 5 euros at a Finnish office

#49

Post by sethammons »

badpun wrote: post #25
kortilla wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet nearly identical risk percentage of poverty as the US: https://countryeconomy.com/countries/compare/finland/usa?sc=... Maybe the key difference is that poverty is better hidden in Finland with more available shelters?

I'm sceptical about the concept of poverty as defined by the economists. They seem to define poverty as being unable to live a consumerist lifestyle, and not being genuinely poor. In the US, the poverty threshold for a single person is about $1000 per month. However, for that amount of money, I think you can get shelter, food, clothing and live in material comfort (or at least lack of evident discomfort) - you're clo…

Where can $1k/mo. provide that? I live in nowhere Montana and the cheapest rent I could just find was $650/mo before utilities ($900/mo. in the town I went to high school at in California in a mobile home park, so it likely did not count space rent). Utilities: I'm not sure. I have a big place; I can spend as much as $600/mo in winter or $200/mo in summer. Let's say someone can get by on $100/mo. That $1k is gone in nowhere California and down to $250 in nowhere Montana. Let's say you can eat for $5/day, so there goes $150. You are now left $100 to manage everything else: transportation, clothing, phone, potentially internet, any unexpected expenses, and nevermind trying to save up first and last months rent and a deposit for utilities. I'd say $1k/mo is hard living. Heck, $3k/mo was really hard on my wife, kids, and I 15 years ago. $1k/mo might keep you from abject poverty, put I feel it is within poverty level.

Re: When a cleaner finds 5 euros at a Finnish office

#50

Post by vardump »

Traubenfuchs wrote: post #16

This is clearly an artificial, manufactured viral marketing campaign. Hash tag added for extra cringe. Ridiculous.

Have you ever stayed in Finland for an extended period? I have. Based on my actual experience, this was probably real and accurate.

But I can't blame you for your cynicism.

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