Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

tesla.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

351–360 of 658 posts

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#351

Post by xkcd-sucks »

krm01 wrote: post #140

It still strikes me why so many people are still against a future with self driving cars. Sure, people throughout history are scared of change & new tech. But if you look at this video and compare the amount of stuff the camera catches AND processes, with the things you are seeing & processing, it's really hard for me to see me being better at it than a computer. The reality of driving (as a human) is that most of it…

> I just find it very hard to understand the perspective of those that are opposed to self driving cars

Consider it in terms of human agency: People expect the use of "consumer electronics" and "appliances" to be mostly unpleasant, frustrating, buggy, full of arbitrary restrictions, and overmonetized.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#352

Post by grey-area »

Slartie wrote: post #340
grey-area wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's no evidence that computers are any better at driving than humans Yes, there is. You can debate the exact figures/circumstances, but the numbers are good, and improving all the time. Humans are just not very good at guiding tons of metal around at high speeds, which isn't very surprising when you think about it. One accident for every 4.34 million miles is already pretty good (compared to 500k miles for huma…

> Yes these quarterly numbers are in the best conditions and supervised, no that doesn't invalidate them... That is exactly what it does: it invalidates them. Comparing apples to oranges is an invalid comparison. Let's compare the numbers again when there's sufficient data for self-driving tech driving in all environmental conditions without supervision and without human assistance jumping in whenever it gets rough.…

Are computers better than the best human drivers in all circumstances? No, maybe they never will be, but that doesn't matter.

Are they better than average humans in average conditions already? Yes.

They don't need to be all powerful AGI which can replace humans in all circumstances to be useful and save lives.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#353

Post by unapologetic »

henrikschroder wrote: post #308
cortesoft wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Meanwhile, Teslas run into the backs of car carriers because they only recognise the car it's carrying and not the truck bed extending behind it And someone rear ended me the other day because they didn't notice cars were stopping. Yes, self-driving cars make mistakes, but humans make all sorts of mistakes, too. The question is, do self driving cars have more accidents per mile (or more damage per mile/injuries per…

> The question is, do self driving cars have more accidents per mile (or more damage per mile/injuries per mile/ deaths per mile) than human driven cars? It should matter if they have less, but in the real world it doesn't matter, because it's "scary" to be rear-ended by an unthinking machine, and business as usual to be rear-ended by a clumsy human, so people will always hold machines to a much higher standard.

as we should.

Human makes a mistake, they could have been tired, distracted, got something in their eye, or anything else.

Machine makes a mistake, it becomes a question of why and will it make that same mistake every time?

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#354

Post by LeoPanthera »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #342
ipunchghosts wrote: post #122

The amount of jitter in the estimates makes me nervous, especially when the model thinks something is present in one frame and not there in the next.

Agreed. It also said it was running at 13fps. Not stoked about a vehicle going 70mph updating at 13fps.

Tesla says their "Hardware 3", which is what you get if you buy it now, can process all cameras at 60fps.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#355

Post by scarejunba »

stefan_ wrote: post #255
scarejunba wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is some evidence. For instance, Tesla drivers report the car stopping before they can perceive an accident about to take place. An example is the first ten seconds of this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APnN2mClkmk These vehicles have a superior sensor system to us. Our processing is better but sometimes their superior sensors are better.

Here are the superior sensors steering the car straight into a paper box: https://twitter.com/greentheonly/status/1202778123433119745 It's even fricking speeding up!

Right, and so the conclusion is that there is some evidence saying that the sensors are superior in some cases and there is some evidence that the sensors are inferior in other cases.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#356

Post by rootusrootus »

Diederich wrote: post #334
heavyset_go wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's a vacuous statement. That's just your opinion, while my comment is a statement of reality as it stands. > Evidence would be a deployed self-driving fleet. This is also just your opinion. Evidence could also be a self-driving vehicle that doesn't drive under the beds of trucks, run people over or is statistically safer than human drivers. > Now if you want theoretical considerations instead of evidence, then…

> Evidence could also be a self-driving vehicle that doesn't drive under the beds of trucks, run people over or is statistically safer than human drivers. The relevant part is the last: "statistically safer than human drivers." Every driving system that has existed or will exist will make errors due to extremely novel situations. Given the energies involved, such errors will lead to crashes, some of which will be hor…

> statistically safer, by a fair margin, than human drivers

And not just that, but individually they have to be seen as safer. As in, I am not going to be happy with a computer driving me around that is merely safer than an average driver. Given that I'm middle aged, don't drink and drive, or drive while exhausted, etc, and I haven't ever caused an accident, I'm going to need a little more assurance.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#357

Post by IanCal »

tenpies wrote: post #323
donkeyd wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's really hard for me to see me being better at it than a computer There's a big difference between seeing and interpreting. The car sees literally everything and can maybe identify most things, but a pedestrian window shopping across the street isn't really that interesting and neither is a bollard. As humans, we filter out the unimportant stuff to focus on the important stuff. We can also pickup on subtle clues…

> We can also pickup on subtle clues in posture, through eye contact and even through the driving style of another person. I think this is what a lot of people take for granted. Driving anywhere where there is another vehicle immediately becomes a social activity . There is a tacit agreement to work within the framework of the enforced driving laws, but beyond that there is a social agreement as to who is doing that.…

> It's why pedestrians try to make eye contact with drivers.

I do this so I know they've seen me, otherwise I've almost been run over. If cars would stop because generic object was in the way, that special social cue wouldn't be needed.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#358

Post by grey-area »

platz wrote: post #347
grey-area wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's no evidence that computers are any better at driving than humans Yes, there is. You can debate the exact figures/circumstances, but the numbers are good, and improving all the time. Humans are just not very good at guiding tons of metal around at high speeds, which isn't very surprising when you think about it. One accident for every 4.34 million miles is already pretty good (compared to 500k miles for huma…

You are right and wrong and the same time. By quoting an average, assuming those numbers hold when scaled up, you are compressing the actual distribution into a single number. Overall that high-level number may be correct. But at the same time, the kinds of people that get into accidents will be a different distribution. How you drive factors a lot into how likely you are into getting in an accident, even allowing fo…

Sure, there are various inadequacies in the data, Tesla is clearly not an unbiased source (though there has been some verification from gov agencies), but I think the rapidly decreasing accident rate is significant (even when compared to the same car without those features), and we'll see numbers continue to improve over time.

Most people are simply not careful drivers all the time. This is one major advantage computers have - they don't get tired or distracted.

Time will tell as we get more data about supervised driving, but I think it's inaccurate to say we don't have data yet, it is imperfect of course, but it does point to computers being safer than humans in some very common conditions over millions of miles.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#359

Post by coolspot »

My guess on tag meanings:

Orange labels:

O - Opposite traffic lane (used together with LA or S)

F - Same-direction traffic lane (used together with FA,LA,RA or S)

FA - Forward Allowed

LA - Left turn Allowed

RA - Right turn Allowed

S - Stop sign/line

C - pedestrian Crossing

T - Trash can =) (see 0:32)

Black labels:

P - Pedestrian (see 0:24)

M - Motorcycle (see 0:28)

C - regular Car ?

V - Vehicle or Van ?

K - truK ?

S - ?

L - ?

At the beginning, utility truck is labeled first as S, then as L, then finally as K.

Almost all cars are labeled as C, some are labeled as V - in my observation mostly Vans and SUVs.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#360

Post by rootusrootus »

What was with the "STOP" at the top of the screen blinking randomly even when the car wasn't at a stop nor at a place where it should stop?

This doesn't really inspire too much confidence, IMO. It makes me think their FSD efforts are on par with their autopilot implementation.

Post reply on HN