German banks are hoarding so many euros they need more vaults • Hacker News Board

Re: German banks are hoarding so many euros they need more vaults

#191

Post by Frost1x » Mon, Feb 03, 2020, 11:36 PM UTC

jimmaswell wrote: post #186

Frost1x wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm trying to think of places that would want to accept $500 to $1000 notes when many places won't even accept a $50 or $100 and consider them "large bills." While I agree with your premise that inflation makes $500-1,000 notes practical from the standpoint of modern expenses, businesses I interact with tend to prefer a third party to verify payment (CC merchant, cashiers check, etc.). Cash is dying and although I lo…

Cash will continue to be #1 for Craigslist/yard sale-type transactions for a long time I'd say.

Would you accept a $1000 or even $500 note from a craigslist transaction?

I'm usually pretty hesitant to accept anything over a $20 or even deal in cash for small exchanges. I wouldn't even consider $500 unless I had a way to strongly guarentee the bill I'm looking at isn't fake.

It would take a bit of time and research before I felt confident enough at identifying these bills to accept them in a trade. I'd have to do a lot of those sort of peer transactions to warrant the overhead of that time.

Re: German banks are hoarding so many euros they need more vaults

#192

Post by conanbatt » Mon, Feb 03, 2020, 11:39 PM UTC

TremendousJudge wrote: post #13

njarboe wrote: post #2

This problem has probably been exacerbated by the fact the the $500 euro note has not been issued since 27 April 2019[1]. I wonder if making storing euros in cash 2.5 times harder (500 versus 200 euro notes) was part of the reason the 500 euro was retired. [Edit] The legal storing of cash. The stated reason was the criminal use of cash. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/500_euro_note

According to that same article, the reason for retiring the note was because the people who benefited the most from its existence are criminals, who need to do their business in cash -- the fewer notes, the easier for them. That includes storage, I guess. Still, I'm personally not in the eurozone, but in general terms for the end user high-denomination notes are not very useful unless you're gonna store them under yo…

> According to that same article, the reason for retiring the note was because the people who benefited the most from its existence are criminals, who need to do their business in cash -- the fewer notes, the easier for them. That includes storage, I guess.

And then, they tell bitcoiners they are crazy for denouncing the overreach of central banks.

Re: German banks are hoarding so many euros they need more vaults

#193

Post by llcoolv » Mon, Feb 03, 2020, 11:41 PM UTC

Despegar wrote: post #26

aazaa wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ... when the German Saver is who would benefit if they decided tomorrow to run deficits for the next 10 years. The German Saver knows better than most that inflation destroys savings. Inflation benefits debtors by allowing them to pay back their loans in depreciated currency. Germany isn't exactly a nation of debtors, although most of Europe is. This is a looming political issue that's only just beginning.

>The German Saver knows better than most that inflation destroys savings. Yeah this is not the outcome Germany or the EU needs to worry about. It's experiencing Japanese deflation for 20 years. >This is a looming political issue that's only just beginning. Yes there's been plenty of hard money cranks that have said this for 10 years since the Great Financial Crisis in the US. Zero Hedge, gold bugs, hedge fund manager…

There is no inflation? You haven't seen the insanely skyrocketing property prices in pretty much every major EU city? And because rent/mortgage took the lion's share in increased cost in other products it manifested as shrinkflation - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrinkflation.

Re: German banks are hoarding so many euros they need more vaults

#194

Post by nemetroid » Mon, Feb 03, 2020, 11:43 PM UTC

kgwgk wrote: post #158

jacquesm wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Direct account-to-account transfer is supported between all major EU banks. It takes a couple of seconds at most, and it's free.

If you mean SEPA instant credit transfers I think they are available only in some countries and they are not free in my experience.

It depends on the country. Within the EU, SEPA transfers must be no more expensive than the equivalent domestic payment. At least in Sweden, this means that SEPA transfers are free.

This rule is new though, it went into effect in December: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELE...

> Charges levied by a payment service provider on a payment service user in respect of cross-border payments in euro shall be the same as the charges levied by that payment service provider for corresponding national payments of the same value in the national currency of the Member State in which the payment service provider of the payment service user is located.

Re: German banks are hoarding so many euros they need more vaults

#195

Post by qtplatypus » Mon, Feb 03, 2020, 11:44 PM UTC

listsfrin wrote: post #140

marriedWpt wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This makes sense to me, but I don't see democratic countries able to stop themselves before it's too late. What comes after? This exact problem is why I liked Bitcoin a few years ago. Although with the scaling issues, it seems less useful than I expected.

Democratic in what sense? I don't think any country asks their citizens what about their financial issues.

All political parties have an economic policy and the voters try to elect governments that reflect their views.

Re: German banks are hoarding so many euros they need more vaults

#196

Post by reaperducer » Mon, Feb 03, 2020, 11:47 PM UTC

njarboe wrote: post #180

reaperducer wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This problem has probably been exacerbated by the fact the the $500 euro note has not been issued since 27 April 2019 The United States used to print $100,000 notes. They were only available to banks for moving from bank to bank, I believe, and so were useful for reducing the number of notes that needed to be stored by banks, while keeping them out of the hands of criminals.

The US also had lower denomination bills like the $500 and $1000 until 1969. They were not in much use then but I think that they could have useful legal uses today considering all of the inflation that happened since 1969. The $500 now would be about like $75 in the 1960's.

The US also had lower denomination bills like the $500 and $1000 until 1969. They were not in much use then

I seem to remember in that era they were useful for some people. My mother worked for a bank in Manhattan and on paydays she would take her check downstairs and cash it, come home with the money in her bra, and then deposit it in our local bank.

Why she didn't just deposit her check, I can't say. Maybe she didn't trust the bank she worked for. Or maybe cash cleared faster than a deposited check.

Re: German banks are hoarding so many euros they need more vaults

#197

Post by wolfgke » Mon, Feb 03, 2020, 11:47 PM UTC

Frost1x wrote: post #191

jimmaswell wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cash will continue to be #1 for Craigslist/yard sale-type transactions for a long time I'd say.

Would you accept a $1000 or even $500 note from a craigslist transaction? I'm usually pretty hesitant to accept anything over a $20 or even deal in cash for small exchanges. I wouldn't even consider $500 unless I had a way to strongly guarentee the bill I'm looking at isn't fake. It would take a bit of time and research before I felt confident enough at identifying these bills to accept them in a trade. I'd have to d…

> It would take a bit of time and research before I felt confident enough at identifying these bills to accept them in a trade.

If such bills were in common use, nearly everybody would know and be aware of the usual security features. So, this is only a problem because such large bills are so rare.

Re: German banks are hoarding so many euros they need more vaults

#198

Post by wolfgke » Mon, Feb 03, 2020, 11:48 PM UTC

TremendousJudge wrote: post #13

njarboe wrote: post #2

This problem has probably been exacerbated by the fact the the $500 euro note has not been issued since 27 April 2019[1]. I wonder if making storing euros in cash 2.5 times harder (500 versus 200 euro notes) was part of the reason the 500 euro was retired. [Edit] The legal storing of cash. The stated reason was the criminal use of cash. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/500_euro_note

According to that same article, the reason for retiring the note was because the people who benefited the most from its existence are criminals, who need to do their business in cash -- the fewer notes, the easier for them. That includes storage, I guess. Still, I'm personally not in the eurozone, but in general terms for the end user high-denomination notes are not very useful unless you're gonna store them under yo…

> According to that same article, the reason for retiring the note was because the people who benefited the most from its existence are criminals, who need to do their business in cash -- the fewer notes, the easier for them.

This is what they want the citizens to believe.

Re: German banks are hoarding so many euros they need more vaults

#199

Post by veselin » Mon, Feb 03, 2020, 11:48 PM UTC

njarboe wrote: post #180

reaperducer wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This problem has probably been exacerbated by the fact the the $500 euro note has not been issued since 27 April 2019 The United States used to print $100,000 notes. They were only available to banks for moving from bank to bank, I believe, and so were useful for reducing the number of notes that needed to be stored by banks, while keeping them out of the hands of criminals.

The US also had lower denomination bills like the $500 and $1000 until 1969. They were not in much use then but I think that they could have useful legal uses today considering all of the inflation that happened since 1969. The $500 now would be about like $75 in the 1960's.

Switzerland is probably the exception, but 200CHF bills are accepted without problems at most places (1 CHF is roughly 1 USD). There are also the less frequently used 1000CHF bills. I don't remember problems buying stuff with them s well, e.g. at supermarkets, once I bough stuff from IKEA with one such bill.

Re: German banks are hoarding so many euros they need more vaults

#200

Post by reaperducer » Mon, Feb 03, 2020, 11:50 PM UTC

Frost1x wrote: post #185

njarboe wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US also had lower denomination bills like the $500 and $1000 until 1969. They were not in much use then but I think that they could have useful legal uses today considering all of the inflation that happened since 1969. The $500 now would be about like $75 in the 1960's.

I'm trying to think of places that would want to accept $500 to $1000 notes when many places won't even accept a $50 or $100 and consider them "large bills." While I agree with your premise that inflation makes $500-1,000 notes practical from the standpoint of modern expenses, businesses I interact with tend to prefer a third party to verify payment (CC merchant, cashiers check, etc.). Cash is dying and although I lo…

I'm trying to think of places that would want to accept $500 to $1000 notes when many places won't even accept a $50 or $100 and consider them "large bills."

Landlords, for one. I'm in the process of leasing a new apartment and I am required to pay some of the fees with a debit card, and some with a cashier's check. It would be easier to just hand them a few large bills and be done with it.

Cash is dying and although I love convenience, I'm not entirely sure that's a good thing.

I try to use cash as much as I can. I also have active checking and savings accounts simply because I don't want to have a single point of failure.