Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video] • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#181

Post by whylie » Mon, Feb 03, 2020, 10:07 PM UTC

krm01 wrote: post #140

It still strikes me why so many people are still against a future with self driving cars. Sure, people throughout history are scared of change & new tech. But if you look at this video and compare the amount of stuff the camera catches AND processes, with the things you are seeing & processing, it's really hard for me to see me being better at it than a computer. The reality of driving (as a human) is that most of it…

I am in full agreement with you.

Also, it seems like the amount of drivers on their phones, texting and driving or what have you, is at an all time high today. I work in an urban area and the amount of times I've missed a light because someone is on their phone stopped in the lane with a green has begun to give me legitimate road rage that I have never experienced in my life until now in my late 30's. I would trust the car more than the average person at this point.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#182

Post by occamrazor » Mon, Feb 03, 2020, 10:07 PM UTC

daniel_iversen wrote: post #172

heavyset_go wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no evidence that computers are any better at driving than humans, and there is no evidence that this generation of machine learning will be able to tackle this problem sufficiently. All signs point to driving requiring an understanding of what's going on around you, which this generation of ML does not provide. On the other hand, there is a lot of hype and promises being made without the results to back them…

Isn’t there already a mounting amount of statistics of accidents of self driving cars vs manual ones and the difference is night and day that the self driving ones are statistically safer?

Self driving cars killed one pedestrian in 10 million miles driven, about an order of magnitude worse than humans

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#183

Post by felipemnoa » Mon, Feb 03, 2020, 10:07 PM UTC

brian_ wrote: post #163

If Teslas navigate with cameras, does that mean a Wil E Coyote style tunnel painting will actually work?

If done right it may even work against humans.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#184

Post by meerita » Mon, Feb 03, 2020, 10:07 PM UTC

heavyset_go wrote: post #160

krm01 wrote: post #140

It still strikes me why so many people are still against a future with self driving cars. Sure, people throughout history are scared of change & new tech. But if you look at this video and compare the amount of stuff the camera catches AND processes, with the things you are seeing & processing, it's really hard for me to see me being better at it than a computer. The reality of driving (as a human) is that most of it…

There's no evidence that computers are any better at driving than humans, and there is no evidence that this generation of machine learning will be able to tackle this problem sufficiently. All signs point to driving requiring an understanding of what's going on around you, which this generation of ML does not provide. On the other hand, there is a lot of hype and promises being made without the results to back them…

How would you compare both? Computers can process millions of objects and things all at the same time, with a error margin than any human being would love to have.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#185

Post by jfim » Mon, Feb 03, 2020, 10:07 PM UTC

ipunchghosts wrote: post #122

The amount of jitter in the estimates makes me nervous, especially when the model thinks something is present in one frame and not there in the next.

That's not unusual for computer vision (or any kind of sensor really), that kind of data is normally filtered and smoothed after that, and merged with previous frames or other sensors.

What would be worrying is the model misclassifying an object, not detecting it at all, or having the bounding box consistently off.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#186

Post by spookthesunset » Mon, Feb 03, 2020, 10:07 PM UTC

oxplot wrote: post #91

Erlich_Bachman wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> than your home computer can handle, much less the components in Tesla cars. Ehm a recent Tesla has very powerful specialized hardware, developed in-house, which is much more powerful than a commodity home PC with expensive GPUs. You might want to do some basic research before you make such claims... > The system isn't AI based... It's currently based on static programming A large neural network is used to make many…

> it does not have to be flawless, it just has to statistically cause fewer accidents per kilometer/year than what human drivers cause in a similar situation (which is already non-zero, and in some countries actually quite high). Even though it logically makes sense, there are some nuances to it, most prominent of which is: When human drivers cause accidents, they are held responsible by the legal system. Who's respo…

> Who's responsible when your car made the decision? Is it Tesla? Is it the driver?

Any time a Tesla is involved in an accident, it seems like the company is more than happy to throw out reams of log data "proving" that it isn't their fault. But yet at the same time they maintain marketing material claiming their "auto pilot" feature is (or will be) so awesome that the human driver is only there to make the lawyers happy.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#187

Post by pbhjpbhj » Mon, Feb 03, 2020, 10:07 PM UTC

Topgamer7 wrote: post #146

krm01 wrote: post #140

It still strikes me why so many people are still against a future with self driving cars. Sure, people throughout history are scared of change & new tech. But if you look at this video and compare the amount of stuff the camera catches AND processes, with the things you are seeing & processing, it's really hard for me to see me being better at it than a computer. The reality of driving (as a human) is that most of it…

It surprised me how long it took it to realize the road was wet.

How do they assess stopping distances without accounting for surface wetness? Is grip established through traction control systems somehow.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#188

Post by cultus » Mon, Feb 03, 2020, 10:08 PM UTC

daniel_iversen wrote: post #172

heavyset_go wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no evidence that computers are any better at driving than humans, and there is no evidence that this generation of machine learning will be able to tackle this problem sufficiently. All signs point to driving requiring an understanding of what's going on around you, which this generation of ML does not provide. On the other hand, there is a lot of hype and promises being made without the results to back them…

Isn’t there already a mounting amount of statistics of accidents of self driving cars vs manual ones and the difference is night and day that the self driving ones are statistically safer?

Not at all. Self-driving cars cannot yet safely navigate complex or unusual scenarios. The human backups in test cars still have to take over with good regularity. That's not something you'd see if it were anywhere close to ready. Even with all their data, there aren't enough training examples of every situation. Deep learning models also have a tendency to be pathologically wrong in rare but completely unpredictable circumstances.

Tesla's self driving has resulted in cars swerving into gore points, for example.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#189

Post by andreilys » Mon, Feb 03, 2020, 10:08 PM UTC

heavyset_go wrote: post #160

krm01 wrote: post #140

It still strikes me why so many people are still against a future with self driving cars. Sure, people throughout history are scared of change & new tech. But if you look at this video and compare the amount of stuff the camera catches AND processes, with the things you are seeing & processing, it's really hard for me to see me being better at it than a computer. The reality of driving (as a human) is that most of it…

There's no evidence that computers are any better at driving than humans, and there is no evidence that this generation of machine learning will be able to tackle this problem sufficiently. All signs point to driving requiring an understanding of what's going on around you, which this generation of ML does not provide. On the other hand, there is a lot of hype and promises being made without the results to back them…

What about computers being safer drivers than humans who are texting and driving?

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#190

Post by sb057 » Mon, Feb 03, 2020, 10:10 PM UTC

krm01 wrote: post #140

It still strikes me why so many people are still against a future with self driving cars. Sure, people throughout history are scared of change & new tech. But if you look at this video and compare the amount of stuff the camera catches AND processes, with the things you are seeing & processing, it's really hard for me to see me being better at it than a computer. The reality of driving (as a human) is that most of it…

At least traditionally, the driver had direct physical control over the vehicle through hydraulics. Obviously this has become less true over the past couple of decades with the introduction of electronic systems, but the traditional imprint remains in the popular mind.

(Truly) self-driving cars are, inversely, completely outside the control of the "driver". Anyone who has considered it even briefly has realized that governments will inevitably mandate lockout systems preventing people from using their own car if they are a wanted felon/drunk/a dissident. Such restrictions are completely impractical on traditional vehicles.