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Just 29k Western Monarch butterflies are left in California

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Re: Just 29k Western Monarch butterflies are left in California

#71

Post by organsnyder »

Ensorceled wrote: post #45
organsnyder wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to see a citation for that. That may be true if we don't use any GMO crops, but GMO doesn't necessarily have to be incompatible with organic practices for fertilizer, pesticides, etc. IANAF, but my understanding is that organic practices are often more labor intensive rather than more land intensive.

Reduced yields per acre due to not using fertilizer, pesticides etc. are the main reason for the increased land usage for the same amount of food produced. Whether it could be balanced out by a huge reduction in growing corn for HFS, feed and ethanol is a whole 'nother topic.

Organic farming doesn't mean not using any fertilizer or pesticides—it just means using certain types that are considered safer. For instance, natural fertilizers (such as compost) are used instead of petroleum-based products. Same for pesticides and herbicides.

Re: Just 29k Western Monarch butterflies are left in California

#72

Post by LMYahooTFY »

spodek wrote: post #70
LMYahooTFY wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's why when I talk about overpopulation, I talk about success cases like Thailand. Or how Mexico's soap operas helped lower that nation's birth rate. These cases brought prosperity, stability, and abundance. Can you elaborate on these and/or provide links? At first thought it seems absurd that telenovelas could significantly impact the birthrate.

My introduction came from Alan Weisman's book Countdown. I did a couple podcast episodes on it: https://shows.acast.com/leadership-and-the-environment/episo... and https://shows.acast.com/leadership-and-the-environment/episo... . Here's a New York Times article on Mexican soap operas and family planning https://www.nytimes.com/1982/01/05/world/soap-opera-in-mexic... This article covers soap operas around the world an…

Thank you for the links, it sounded like you might have more expansive thoughts out there and that's what I was after.

I appreciate it!

Re: Just 29k Western Monarch butterflies are left in California

#73

Post by knightofmars »

nothrabannosir wrote: post #65
forgotmypw wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you stopped buying plastic? Have you stopped buying the myriad "cleaning" products which pollute your home and create pollution in the process of being produced? Have you stopped buying disposable clothing and plastic trinkets? If you are still buying these things, you are complicit in this ecocide. And now you know it, too. Once you stop yourself, you can tell others, too. Without making changes in your own act…

We are facing a tragedy of the commons, and individual action does not solve that. This holds true for overfishing, pollution, greenhouse gas emissions, you name it. The change we need is pigovian taxes, which factor negative externalities into the price of the activity causing it, instead of letting them be amortised by society. Consumer-shaming is not how we solve a tragedy of the commons. If half the world stops b…

Exactly! We need to stop acting like people will wake-up one day and change all of their habits. You want to change behaviors? Make it so expensive to engage in those behaviors that they're no longer economically viable.

Re: Just 29k Western Monarch butterflies are left in California

#74

Post by knightofmars »

svieira wrote: post #69
spodek wrote: post #51

> habitat loss, the use of pesticides, disease and the changing climate have all likely contributed to the decline of western monarchs We can dance around proximal causes all we want, but all environmental roads lead to overpopulation. Most people associate acting on population with China forcing abortions or tearing down homes, or racist eugenics policies or forced sterilizations. That's why when I talk about overpo…

IUDs and vasectomies encourage the kind of life that uses created things instead of receives them. Which, counterintuitively, will increase the rate of consumption, not reduce it. Family planning is good when it plans to receive, not when it plans to demand.

The point is to allow those who wish to no longer have children the means to achieve it other than "abstaining" which doesn't work. Specifically for those living at or near poverty levels. The consumption of a new human adds a larger increase in consumption on the world than two existing humans who choose not to have any children.

Re: Just 29k Western Monarch butterflies are left in California

#75

Post by CameronNemo »

nightfly wrote: post #19
CameronNemo wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is off topic, but that website is designed terribly. I thank Mozilla for Firefox reader view in times like these.

It's a ~username website, it looks exactly as you should expect it to.

I should expect it to have a background image that interferes with my ability to read the text??

Re: Just 29k Western Monarch butterflies are left in California

#77

Post by b5n »

samcheng wrote: post #3

If you can, visit the Monarch Grove at Natural Bridges State Beach in Santa Cruz. Even though the numbers are down significantly, it is still visibly better than last year, and it's wonderful to stand amidst the Eucalyptus trees and see the butterflies swarming.

Pismo looked healthier this year as well: https://www.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=23795

Re: Just 29k Western Monarch butterflies are left in California

#79

Post by spodek »

LMYahooTFY wrote: post #72
spodek wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My introduction came from Alan Weisman's book Countdown. I did a couple podcast episodes on it: https://shows.acast.com/leadership-and-the-environment/episo... and https://shows.acast.com/leadership-and-the-environment/episo... . Here's a New York Times article on Mexican soap operas and family planning https://www.nytimes.com/1982/01/05/world/soap-opera-in-mexic... This article covers soap operas around the world an…

Thank you for the links, it sounded like you might have more expansive thoughts out there and that's what I was after. I appreciate it!

We're in this together.
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