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China to inject $174B of liquidity on Monday as markets reopen

reuters.com

481–490 of 560 posts

Re: China to inject $174B of liquidity on Monday as markets reopen

#481
post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of this is widely talked about in the United States where we debate the legitimacy of drone warfare, the history and legacy of racism, and the missteps of American foreign policy. We read Howard Zinn in my (public) High School history class. You appear to want to debate "whether America is evil" or something but I'm talking about a distinction between manufacture-of-consent propaganda and state control of speech…

> You appear to want to debate "whether America is evil" or something No. I have no interest in saying that at all. I have not said that anywhere in this comment thread. All I started out saying, and am continuing to say is that the major difference with propaganda in the USA is that the vast majority of Americans have no idea they are subjected to it, and would get angry if it was pointed out to them. That's all. >…

> All I started out saying, and am continuing to say is that the major difference with propaganda in the USA is that the vast majority of Americans have no idea they are subjected to it, and would get angry if it was pointed out to them.

This just doesn’t jive with my experience growing up in what was (at the time) a fairly conventional somewhat conservative state (Virginia). We were exposed to Zinn and Manufacturing Consent in our public school. We learned about slavery, Indian extermination, Jim Crow, McCarthyism, etc. We learned about our interventions in Latin America and Iran. Socialism and the labor movement was taught very sympathetically. For example, we were taught that Upton Sinclair’s “the Jungle” was muckraking journalism. It wasn’t until I was an adult that I learned that the novel was intended to be socialist propaganda. We certainly were never we exposed to the contemporaneous criticism of Sinclair: https://fee.org/articles/29-upton-sinclairs-the-jungle-prove...

If anything, I’d argue the propaganda was in the other direction. America was almost always painted in a bad light, except for two things: the founding, and WWII. (Although, teachers are already trying to delegitimize our founding by incorporating material from the 1619 project.) We never learned all the bad things about the Soviet Union, or socialism as tried in Latin America.

Re: China to inject $174B of liquidity on Monday as markets reopen

#482
post #130

Gorbachev used to say that Chernobyl was where the USSR really started to crumble. The disaster made clear how morally bankrupt and technically incompetent the system really was, wiping out any remaining goodwill or trust. Similarly, Katrina was where the semi-fascist US consensus under GW Bush went to pieces. I suspect China will experience a similar moment at some point. This might well be it.

Katrina was when I realized how silly it is to think our government would ever deal effectively with a major disaster and how vulnerable we are.

It's pretty silly to think any government can deal effectively with a major disaster. At the end of the day, the best way to address a major disaster is with both a government response and a prepared citizenry. Centralized support to a decentralized response is way more effective.

There isn't much centralized support can do when it is overwhelmed and the citizens at a local level are helpless/useless.

Learn first aid skills. Learn amateur radio for communication. Have backup water, food and fuel.

Re: China to inject $174B of liquidity on Monday as markets reopen

#483

My wife asked me at breakfast why the new virus is such a big deal: hundreds dying vs. the 5K to 10K babies and infants who die everyday in the world from dehydration and/or starvation. My response was exponential growth of viruses and mutation into something very deadly. China is taking the outbreak seriously, locking down large and high population regions. I wondered if some of that is PR since after a previous out…

It’s the potential for exponential growth. The flu and world hunger are mostly known, contained quantities. While there’s a low probability that the coronavirus will become a pandemic, there is an extremely high downside if that happens. The danger comes not from the probability of the event but from the payoff.

Re: China to inject $174B of liquidity on Monday as markets reopen

#484

Meta: 185 top comment replies, 278 comments total. The redditfication of this place continues. China articles are essentially broken and there's no point trying to advance the discussion or have healthy debate. Someone should make an extension that collapses all replies and only shows top level comments, think it might be a lot healthier for online discourse.

Also, about half of the comments are "(China/America/government in general) is evil, because (some superficial observation already known by 99% of visitors here and not directly relevant to the current situation)", or some form of generic refutation. I'm also frequently guilty of the same thing, but this is getting out of hand...

Not surprisingly, not everyone is an expert on Rust, but everyone is an expert on shit happening on the other side of the planet. /s

At least the technical discussions (aside from Google evil, Apple walled garden, new Microsoft/same old Microsoft, etc. etc.) are on average higher quality than elsewhere.

Re: China to inject $174B of liquidity on Monday as markets reopen

#486
post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This might be similar, but I see zero chance of Xi's power taking a hit. For as long as party's institutes are intact, he will be there. Some people began to speculate that Xi wasn't seen for the last 3 days, and sudden activity of "party elders," but I bet this is just an enormous amounts of wishful thinking showing up. Xi's "system" has an expiration date attached, but it's not tomorrow. Following on that Gorbachev…

> there were officials who were publicly disobeying his direct orders. Gorbachev's point was more about public opinion than political machinery or party hierarchies. Infighting factions had been a fact of life in the USSR since foundation, but the public as a whole still operated on the presumption that the State existed and was working with some degree of competency and some degree of shared purpose (if inscrutable…

I remember reading in some article, right before the Arab Spring, the entire Egyptian society had become a society of pretense. Every one was pretending to be, and to be doing things which they were not. There was mind boggling amount of lies on which the society ran.

Eventual Arab Spring was also in some way the society maxing out the amount of lies that can be told to each other and continue without bigger consequences. Some day things like hunger, illiteracy, jobs, living standards, economy all catch up you and your reality. And that's the day reality itself gives you a brutal appraisal of the situation.

Taubman noted that the disaster marked "a turning point for Gorbachev and the Soviet regime".[217] Several days after it occurred, he gave a televised report to the nation.[218] He cited the disaster as evidence for what he regarded as widespread problems in Soviet society, such as shoddy workmanship and workplace inertia.[219] Gorbachev later described the incident as one which made him appreciate the scale of incompetence and cover-ups in the Soviet Union.[217] From April to the end of the year, Gorbachev became increasingly open in his criticism of the Soviet system, including food production, state bureaucracy, the military draft, and the large size of the prison population.[220]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikhail_Gorbachev

Gorbachev might not have the man who messed it all up, but he was the last man to see through the end of this. Basically this kind of rot is long set in motion, and eventually leads to a black swan disaster event, then every one wakes up to the deep truth they knew all along, but chose bury and move on with their daily lives instead.

The job of leadership on the basic level is to give this brutal self appraisal to themselves, before these disaster big black swan events and do what it takes to fix them.

As an Indian reading this is scary enough as it is. India has been on this disastrous path for long now. Every now and then there is some respite from this. But deep down everyone knows the society is broken, there is mind boggling amount of corruption(Like you said "every man for himself"), and other standard set of problems have long plagued the country.

I hope there won't be a black swan disaster event. But given the history of the world and inevitability of these things, I wonder if one comes along, what could that be?

Re: China to inject $174B of liquidity on Monday as markets reopen

#487
post #130

Gorbachev used to say that Chernobyl was where the USSR really started to crumble. The disaster made clear how morally bankrupt and technically incompetent the system really was, wiping out any remaining goodwill or trust. Similarly, Katrina was where the semi-fascist US consensus under GW Bush went to pieces. I suspect China will experience a similar moment at some point. This might well be it.

Dude, they built a massive hospital complex in just a few days. We have a... dumb f---ing wall that gets blown over by wind and has to have major stretches of it wide open during the monsoon season to avoid flooding.

Re: China to inject $174B of liquidity on Monday as markets reopen

#488

If US or China stock market was to go down, govt will immediately infuse such massive cash that things would be back up in no time. I'm wondering this is why there had been no recession past the entire decade and very likely none ahead. Somehow we have arrived at economic prosperity level where enough wealth is "buffered" to smooth out downturns.

I think the biggest counter-argument to this is the problem of "mal-investment". In a lot of ways the business cycle operates as an explore-exploit optimizer. During boom periods, credit conditions are loose. Which allows for a large degree of innovation with new and speculative business models. This is important because as conditions and technologies change, the frontier space of what's viable needs to be explored.…

Fantastically put! Just as periodic wildfires are necessary to clear the flammable brush and enable new growth, recessions will trim the fat and close down our least successful businesses. This creates more resources to pour into stable, or at least more promising, companies.

Re: China to inject $174B of liquidity on Monday as markets reopen

#489
post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reddit has a solution to this problem, and HN should steal it: randomize top-level comment order. This keeps the highest ranked comment from becoming a top-heavy attractor for all further discussion. I agree this is a real problem for discourse on HN these days!

Think I've seen this in a few subs as default? Randomised comments for each unique client, even with some weighting perhaps might bring some balance back.

Reddit's "best" filter isn't their "top" filter and does exactly what the parent says, explanation[0] ; it does this by default unless the sub moderators choose to default to a different view.

0: https://redditblog.com/2009/10/15/reddits-new-comment-sortin...

Re: China to inject $174B of liquidity on Monday as markets reopen

#490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Similarly, Katrina was where the semi-fascist US consensus under GW Bush went to pieces. What semi-fascist consensus do you imagine existed, and how was it affected by Katrina?

I assume the poster is talking about the post 9/11 climate, where the country was solidly behind President Bush, while the federal government was busy ramping up Guantanamo, the patriot act, water boarding, etc. in the name of fighting terrorism.

... a one-party state, Homeland security, Judith Miller, two wars of aggression on foreign soil (one completely illegal), the President choosing not to enforce laws he didn't like, every critical voice being labelled "unpatriotic", every media channel bleeding nationalism 24-7... the sort of thing that in other countries we'd call "a regime".
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