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China to inject $174B of liquidity on Monday as markets reopen

reuters.com

441–450 of 560 posts

Re: China to inject $174B of liquidity on Monday as markets reopen

#441

Meta: 185 top comment replies, 278 comments total. The redditfication of this place continues. China articles are essentially broken and there's no point trying to advance the discussion or have healthy debate. Someone should make an extension that collapses all replies and only shows top level comments, think it might be a lot healthier for online discourse.

Also, about half of the comments are "(China/America/government in general) is evil, because (some superficial observation already known by 99% of visitors here and not directly relevant to the current situation)", or some form of generic refutation. I'm also frequently guilty of the same thing, but this is getting out of hand...

I'm also drawn in by it, really need to actively remind myself to step back.

Not long ago there was a massive r/space thread with thousands of top comments about govt funding + puns and hidden down the bottom after clicking "more" was a JPL engineer who worked directly on the project linked with incredibly insightful commentary on the inner workings of the satellite. These things should be valued more and not hidden from the world.

Re: China to inject $174B of liquidity on Monday as markets reopen

#442

If US or China stock market was to go down, govt will immediately infuse such massive cash that things would be back up in no time. I'm wondering this is why there had been no recession past the entire decade and very likely none ahead. Somehow we have arrived at economic prosperity level where enough wealth is "buffered" to smooth out downturns.

I think the biggest counter-argument to this is the problem of "mal-investment". In a lot of ways the business cycle operates as an explore-exploit optimizer. During boom periods, credit conditions are loose. Which allows for a large degree of innovation with new and speculative business models. This is important because as conditions and technologies change, the frontier space of what's viable needs to be explored.…

This is like an argument that we need epidemics like plagues once in a while to shake out the weaklings. It turns out that epidemics are neither effective and also they take out strong as well as weak just like recession kills many good longer-term startups.

On a broader view, the amount of cash that governments like US and China able to infuse in the system at moment's notice is unparalleled. The big 5 tech alone harbors cash of $0.5T and capable to weather any storms. If you think of US or China as one organism, they have achieved enough of collective wealth and enough cash just sloshing around that any new recession can be absorbed away.

Re: China to inject $174B of liquidity on Monday as markets reopen

#443
post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason why Americans deny that they are fed propaganda is because the kind of propaganda that exists in America is subtle. It doesn't involve jailing or killing dissidents. Your post (and the parent post) omitted that distinction. My argument is that this distinction matters.

[flagged]

> Regular citizens in America have a worse life than people in other OECD countires, but you're OK with it, because "rah, rah America".

By what measure? The average American house is double the size of the average European house. We have vastly more disposable income: http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/countries/united-states/

It correspondingly leads the world in household consumption expenditures per capita: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_household... ($37,903 in the US, $20,408 in France).

We are among the top in terms of college education rates: On other measures, the US does great. It has long been among the top countries for college attainment: https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator_cac.asp

There are some indicators where the US doesn’t do as well. For example, life expectancy at age 65 is on the lower end, six months less than the UK and about the same as Denmark and Poland: https://data.oecd.org/healthstat/life-expectancy-at-65.htm. Though the fact that Denmark and Poland are the same should indicate that the measure is highly sensitive to demographic and cultural factors. (Sweden, Germany, and the UK are closer to the US than they are to France or Spain.)

> Plenty of people were jailed in the occupy wall street peaceful demonstrations.

Occupy Wall Street protestors were not all “peaceful.” They sometimes got violent or destructive, and they were arrested, but that‘s not a bad thing. It’s happening in France too: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/04/france-scores-yellow-.... There is a huge difference between arresting rowdy protestors and imprisoning political dissidents.

> Also includes executing American citizens without trial

By that you mean ordering a military attack on an American citizen who was waging war against the US on foreign soil. Again, huge difference between that and executing citizens on US soil for political offenses.

> testing on huamns against their consent

Yes, that was bad. But not as bad as experiments in collective farming killing tens of millions of people!

> overthrowing democratically elected leaders

Not clear that this is bad.

> I could go on and on. The fact you're inside it, and being subjected to it, means you can't see it clearly.

You can go on and on, but can you present any examples that are actually equivalent? Your examples, presumably the best ones you have, are utterly superficial. What’s the equivalency you’re hoping to draw between taking military action against a terrorist on foreign soil, who happens to have US citizenship, and massive political purges? It’s not even just a matter of “both are bad, but one involves more instances of the bad thing.” The moral calculus is completely different. How are you supposed to even handle a US citizen who wages terrorist attacks on the US from abroad. It’s not like you can send police to arrest them. Whether it’s ultimately “bad” or not, the ethical calculation is completely different.

> That's why I said it's interesting 'siracusa23' can. He/she has more perspective than you (and I'm willing to bet the majority of Americans)

There are millions of Americans who have first hand experience with socialism and communism, and many are among the most fervent defenders of the American way. There are 1.5 million Cuban Americans in Florida, and Donald Trump won a majority of their vote: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/campaigns/100-republ.... These are people for whom the distant memory of communism is so powerful that they’ll hold their nose and vote for the Republican candidate regardless of the odious things he’s said about immigrants. Nationwide, a supermajority of Hispanics (60-20) said they wouldn’t vote for someone who called themselves a “socialist”: https://www.latinorebels.com/2019/11/07/telemundopoll. These are people who have (or their families have) experience with the dismal failures of socialism in Latin America.

Re: China to inject $174B of liquidity on Monday as markets reopen

#444
post #8

A friend of mine is leaving HK today - he lives there, so this is not a casual trip abroad. He said the level of fear is making it impossible to live there as a single person. The shops and restaurants are closed. Even his own employer shut its doors indefinitely - and they’re just a video production company. The virus won’t be what ruins China. It’s the panic itself.

So really, how bad is this? Per article less than 400 people have died in the country with over a billion people.

Here's a page putting it into perspective against other recent outbreaks: https://ncov.r6.no/

On day 23: Swine Flu: 27 deaths 8541 infected, SARS: 119 deaths 2160 infected, Coronavirus: 361 deaths 16768

It's not quite 12 monkeys territory but it does have the potential to kill a lot of people worldwide.

Re: China to inject $174B of liquidity on Monday as markets reopen

#445

Meta: 185 top comment replies, 278 comments total. The redditfication of this place continues. China articles are essentially broken and there's no point trying to advance the discussion or have healthy debate. Someone should make an extension that collapses all replies and only shows top level comments, think it might be a lot healthier for online discourse.

The same with posts on Bay Area Housing Prices, UBI, PHP, "The Terribleness of Google" and many more.

All these subjects just repeat the same old arguments but just give a new set of people the opportunity to repeat them.

This has been how HN has always been, it's not more redditified on these subjects now than it was before.

Re: China to inject $174B of liquidity on Monday as markets reopen

#447

Meta: 185 top comment replies, 278 comments total. The redditfication of this place continues. China articles are essentially broken and there's no point trying to advance the discussion or have healthy debate. Someone should make an extension that collapses all replies and only shows top level comments, think it might be a lot healthier for online discourse.

OK. So here is the real news: Shanghai Composite index plunges 8.7% as market reopens https://www.news10.com/news/shanghai-composite-index-plunges... So the $174B isn't working?

For reference, the Hong Kong Hang Seng Index, which opened earlier and also where many mainland Chinese companies are listed, was at ~ 29,000 points on 17th Jan, and now it is at ~26000, which is a drop of ~ 10%.

Shanghai Composite, which only opened today, was ~ 3000 points on 17th Jan and now dropped to ~ 2700

So it's mostly aligned in that sense.

The Hang Seng Index is at least not dropping further (slight up as of this morning) so the liquidity news is at least 1 positive factor helping the market.

Re: China to inject $174B of liquidity on Monday as markets reopen

#448
post #130

Gorbachev used to say that Chernobyl was where the USSR really started to crumble. The disaster made clear how morally bankrupt and technically incompetent the system really was, wiping out any remaining goodwill or trust. Similarly, Katrina was where the semi-fascist US consensus under GW Bush went to pieces. I suspect China will experience a similar moment at some point. This might well be it.

This might be similar, but I see zero chance of Xi's power taking a hit. For as long as party's institutes are intact, he will be there. Some people began to speculate that Xi wasn't seen for the last 3 days, and sudden activity of "party elders," but I bet this is just an enormous amounts of wishful thinking showing up. Xi's "system" has an expiration date attached, but it's not tomorrow. Following on that Gorbachev…

Xi’s largest risk by far is actually contracting this. As a portly 66 year old male, he is risk factor central.

Putin, Trump, Pence, Mitch, Erdogan, Bernie, Biden ... this virus could change world politics.

Re: China to inject $174B of liquidity on Monday as markets reopen

#449

Meta: 185 top comment replies, 278 comments total. The redditfication of this place continues. China articles are essentially broken and there's no point trying to advance the discussion or have healthy debate. Someone should make an extension that collapses all replies and only shows top level comments, think it might be a lot healthier for online discourse.

Also, about half of the comments are "(China/America/government in general) is evil, because (some superficial observation already known by 99% of visitors here and not directly relevant to the current situation)", or some form of generic refutation. I'm also frequently guilty of the same thing, but this is getting out of hand...

“Some superficial observation” well I think this is where you miss it. The state of the US is so bad in the eyes of many outsiders that yes many see it simply as China/America government bad. I mean since Snowden it is very clear that the American government is actively spying on everyone not just foreigners but basically everyone. That sounds bad and is definitely hostile if you are an American but not unexpected as a foreigner however. Next we have recent examples of China and the US detaining certain populations. That looks like a massive human rights violation in both countries. Also the state of American politics looks very corrupt from an outsiders perspective. Daily accusation of a corrupt government that the media obviously wants portrayed as an incompetent failure of a leader and the people to scared or powerless to change it demonstrating the political system is a sham. It was even in the news recently other heads of states at NATO laughing at the President. I can not picture that happening with any other President. The world has “gone to shit” for a lot of people and these superficial issues are not so superficial to others and their voice is growing louder every year with the ever decaying state of affairs.

Re: China to inject $174B of liquidity on Monday as markets reopen

#450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't wear a face mask, drones will follow you around telling you to put one on. https://twitter.com/globaltimesnews/status/12232189775700787...

This is just another tiktok video.

Is it fake? I don't think being posted to tiktok tells me whether it's real or fake.

Even if it is fake, @globaltimesnews is run by the Communist party, so either they actually are sending drones out to tell you to put on a mask, or they want you to think they're sending drones out to tell you to put on a mask.

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