151–160 of 251 posts
> Airbus for years conducted a “massive scheme to offer and pay bribes”, involving very senior executives, according to disclosures in courts in Washington DC, Paris and London, as Europe’s aerospace champion agreed to pay €3.6bn in penalties to regulators in France, the UK and the US. So nobody went to jail, though
Nobody goes to jail for "lobbying" in the US while it is clearly about the same thing as bribery. Just a legal form of it.
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Is bribery really harmful enough to necessitate custodial sentences? Especially in the EU, where our criminal justice systems aren’t nearly as unreasonable as in the US.
Bribery is forbidden by law, for obvious reasons. A law is useless if it is not somehow enforced. One could enforce it by holding the company accountable, however history has shown that this does not withhold individuals from breaking the law for personal gain. (Remember Enron or the credit crisis) So that's why there are custodial sentences for bribery.
Airbus is getting huge fines, how is that not enforcement?
Custodial sentences aren’t and shouldn’t be the only way of enforcing the law.
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Bribery: Mr. Minister, buy from us 42 airplanes for $4.8 Billion and 800 Million will be deposited in off shore accounts of your choosing. Lobbying: Senator, my clients would like that the recent changes in the tax code stay as they are but the deduction on ....is increased. (maybe a dinner or a small campaign contribution, as other lobbyists will oppose this one) Very, very different.
Lobbying: Senator, I hope you enjoyed this really nice dinner we cooked for you. Also, you are free to use this yacht (which is worth $800 million but we’ll just day it’s worth a couple bucks to keep the ethics committee happy) any time you please. No, this isn’t a bribe, the registration and taxes for the yacht will remain with our company but you can use it whenever you desire as long as you continue to help pass l…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Bribery is forbidden by law, for obvious reasons. A law is useless if it is not somehow enforced. One could enforce it by holding the company accountable, however history has shown that this does not withhold individuals from breaking the law for personal gain. (Remember Enron or the credit crisis) So that's why there are custodial sentences for bribery.
>A law is useless if it is not somehow enforced Airbus is getting huge fines, how is that not enforcement? Custodial sentences aren’t and shouldn’t be the only way of enforcing the law.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nobody goes to jail for "lobbying" in the US while it is clearly about the same thing as bribery. Just a legal form of it.
While lobbyists have sometimes bribed officials through gifts and perks, which is illegal, lobbying is not bribery. Say you're interesting in promoting renewable energy. You and like minded people put together resources to promote renewable energy to politicians, explaining its benefits. This activity is lobbying for renewable energy.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Bribery is forbidden by law, for obvious reasons. A law is useless if it is not somehow enforced. One could enforce it by holding the company accountable, however history has shown that this does not withhold individuals from breaking the law for personal gain. (Remember Enron or the credit crisis) So that's why there are custodial sentences for bribery.
>A law is useless if it is not somehow enforced Airbus is getting huge fines, how is that not enforcement? Custodial sentences aren’t and shouldn’t be the only way of enforcing the law.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Actually, this is orthogonal to governments. There's widespread bribery in the private sector too, where decisions makers are gifted to persuade them. To use your phrasing, a capitalistic view of this is that corruption is just anything that breaks the fairy tale idea that the people who work in the corporation seek the interests of the company and not their very own private interests. You can even see it play out he…
It's true, but it's also true that many things that are considered corruption/illegal when you do it for the government, they are not when it's inside a company. If a business owner hires his nephew, that's not illegal and many people wouldn't consider it corruption. If a government official appoints his nephew, that's frowned upon to say the least. But going back to your argument, if an employee uses his position an…
What about when a President appoints his daughter and son-in-law?
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Nobody goes to jail for "lobbying" in the US while it is clearly about the same thing as bribery. Just a legal form of it.
While lobbyists have sometimes bribed officials through gifts and perks, which is illegal, lobbying is not bribery. Say you're interesting in promoting renewable energy. You and like minded people put together resources to promote renewable energy to politicians, explaining its benefits. This activity is lobbying for renewable energy.
Why not explain reality?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
While lobbyists have sometimes bribed officials through gifts and perks, which is illegal, lobbying is not bribery. Say you're interesting in promoting renewable energy. You and like minded people put together resources to promote renewable energy to politicians, explaining its benefits. This activity is lobbying for renewable energy.
This breaks down when politicians get some kind of personal benefit such as campaign contributions or a consulting job. This is a conflict of interest and should exclude them from any vote about the interests of the lobbyist.
But being humans and all, people slip. But there's a difference, just as their is between Syria and NYC when it comes to "crime" rate /chance of dying. Just because you have a x% chance of dying from a crime in NYC, doesn't mean it is the same as Syria.
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As a regular person, I've spent $400 to travel to DC and walk in and meet with 12 senators and congressmen. No donations required and I got to spend an hour with each as and even got treated to lunch by one of my states US reps. Got the policy change,too. So many people are way to cynical. Lobbyists show up and citizens do not. When a citizen shows up (and is rational) legislators listen.
Thanks for this. Can you please write up a blog post or a comment here with a lot more detail?