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Airbus ran ‘massive’ bribery scheme to win orders

ft.com

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Re: Airbus ran ‘massive’ bribery scheme to win orders

#101

Post by legitster »

ekianjo wrote: post #80
fnord77 wrote: post #6

> Airbus for years conducted a “massive scheme to offer and pay bribes”, involving very senior executives, according to disclosures in courts in Washington DC, Paris and London, as Europe’s aerospace champion agreed to pay €3.6bn in penalties to regulators in France, the UK and the US. So nobody went to jail, though

Nobody goes to jail for "lobbying" in the US while it is clearly about the same thing as bribery. Just a legal form of it.

This is patently untrue. A lobbyist is just anybody who meets with an elected official on behalf of a group. There are perfectly legitimate lobbyists, and many depending on the group they may even be volunteers.

It just so happens that the lobbyists that get the most attention are those that represent the most powerful groups. But equating it with bribery is completely misleading.

Re: Airbus ran ‘massive’ bribery scheme to win orders

#102

Post by onetimemanytime »

ekianjo wrote: post #80
fnord77 wrote: post #6

> Airbus for years conducted a “massive scheme to offer and pay bribes”, involving very senior executives, according to disclosures in courts in Washington DC, Paris and London, as Europe’s aerospace champion agreed to pay €3.6bn in penalties to regulators in France, the UK and the US. So nobody went to jail, though

Nobody goes to jail for "lobbying" in the US while it is clearly about the same thing as bribery. Just a legal form of it.

Bribery: Mr. Minister, buy from us 42 airplanes for $4.8 Billion and 800 Million will be deposited in off shore accounts of your choosing.

Lobbying: Senator, my clients would like that the recent changes in the tax code stay as they are but the deduction on ....is increased. (maybe a dinner or a small campaign contribution, as other lobbyists will oppose this one)

Very, very different.

Re: Airbus ran ‘massive’ bribery scheme to win orders

#103

Post by xbmcuser »

LaserToy wrote: post #21

Anyone here actually believes it is only Airbus???

In most of the developing world/3rd world countries to get any contracts you need to bribe the politicians. So any western company that has got government contracts to build anything has given bribes then that black money (illegal money) is parked in real estate and banks of the developed countries. Then they provide loans through development banks like IMF etc to offset the trade imbalances that results because of the money going out of these poor countries. I personally feel one of the reasons western countries don't like China silk road initiative is that China used their own playbook and cut them out of this market of exploitation. For the countries being exploited they exchanged 1 for the other but because of competition the politicians now get better deals make billions and once loose the power move to the west where their money was parked.

Re: Airbus ran ‘massive’ bribery scheme to win orders

#104

Post by andy_ppp »

topspin wrote: post #60
LaserToy wrote: post #21

Anyone here actually believes it is only Airbus???

Well, I certainly don't. I'm just amused at the level of whataboutism I'm observing in these responses.

What about whataboutism? Seriously though just calling whataboutery is so boring, I found it interesting how often this happens with all defence contractors, as if there’s something deeply immoral at their core...

Re: Airbus ran ‘massive’ bribery scheme to win orders

#105

Post by Thorrez »

bobbydroptables wrote: post #14
jdkee wrote: post #13

Bribery or MCAS? Your choice.

Option 3: start jailing these fraudsters for criminal fraud. Jail corporate profits for 6 months. Claw back any and all executive pay since the fraud began and distribute it to low level employees or other victims of the fraud. If you can't survive as an honest company you don't deserve to survive. And there are very few people that give the government as many screws as executives to modify their behavior.

> Jail corporate profits for 6 months.

It seems like they did more than 6 months. Their profits for the first half of 2019 were €2.53B[1], the fines for this were €3.6B.

[1] https://www.businessinsider.com/airbus-more-than-doubles-hal...

Re: Airbus ran ‘massive’ bribery scheme to win orders

#107

Post by nloladze »

vintermann wrote: post #98
eeeficus wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a demagogic way of phrasing it! So no money ends up in the account of future election campaigns?

Money isn't even the worst of it at this level. It's about networking, and what you can ask for. A top politician doesn't need to be bribed when they understand perfectly well that if they happen to need a little pocket money, they can just come and hold a speech for six figures. If the money will be there when you need it, there's only risk in letting it lie in your bank account. Likewise, blackmail. People imagine…

Careful, you might get censored.

Re: Airbus ran ‘massive’ bribery scheme to win orders

#108

Post by Thorrez »

ekianjo wrote: post #95
manfredo wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While lobbyists have sometimes bribed officials through gifts and perks, which is illegal, lobbying is not bribery. Say you're interesting in promoting renewable energy. You and like minded people put together resources to promote renewable energy to politicians, explaining its benefits. This activity is lobbying for renewable energy.

"Resources" is in an understatement. It involves directly paying politicians. How is that not bribery?

Is it directly paying them? I thought it was making campaign contributions, and I don't think it can be tit for tat either.
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