Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

371–380 of 859 posts

Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

#371

Post by weaksauce »

kerkeslager wrote: post #359

I don't know if I know the solution, but I know one thing that isn't the solution: silencing everyone who disagrees with you. A lot of the people complaining about "toxicity" on the internet seem to be under the impression that if we "deplatform" the so-called toxic people, that will fix things. But on the contrary, that makes things worse. If someone says something awful on the internet, and everyone either ignores…

> but I know one thing that isn't the solution: silencing everyone who disagrees with you

this assumes that the people on the internet are arguing in good faith. they aren't in a lot of cases. the problem i have is willful ignorance and the associated culture that promotes the people that spread lies.

Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

#372

Post by austincheney »

kerkeslager wrote: post #359

I don't know if I know the solution, but I know one thing that isn't the solution: silencing everyone who disagrees with you. A lot of the people complaining about "toxicity" on the internet seem to be under the impression that if we "deplatform" the so-called toxic people, that will fix things. But on the contrary, that makes things worse. If someone says something awful on the internet, and everyone either ignores…

> silencing anyone who disagrees with you.

Agreed. Disagreement, tolerance, and diversity are healthy. The opposite is censorship, insecurity, and conformance.

Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

#374

Post by throw90 »

eqdw wrote: post #274

Discussions like this are frustrating to me because they always seem to skip over what feels like a crucial element: Do you know _why_ this uptick has happened? Does anyone? I get the feeling, in general, when people talk about wanting to "Do Something" about this sort of thing, they are always focused on managing the symptom and never focused on addressing the cause. Frequently, when I try to bring this up, the caus…

> Do you know _why_ this uptick has happened? Does anyone?

Lookup Overton Window Shift.

Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

#375

Post by asdf21 »

kerkeslager wrote: post #359

I don't know if I know the solution, but I know one thing that isn't the solution: silencing everyone who disagrees with you. A lot of the people complaining about "toxicity" on the internet seem to be under the impression that if we "deplatform" the so-called toxic people, that will fix things. But on the contrary, that makes things worse. If someone says something awful on the internet, and everyone either ignores…

The "toxic" people are trying to be honest about real issues, and they tend to get shouted down for it. Then the real issues persist, decade after decade, but they cannot be talked about, it's too politically incorrect. A few more people try, get shouted down, rinse and repeat the process.

Then people wonder why a segment of the population is extremely cynical and bitter and polarized when it comes to any sort of debate on controversial issues...

>I've found that when I actually talk to so-called "toxic" people politely, they are willing to listen. It's not them that are causing the polarization.

Agree 100%.

Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

#376

Post by kerkeslager »

praptak wrote: post #344
kerkeslager wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution is the same as it was in 1991 as well: don't feed the trolls.

This was shown repeatedly not to work. The only troll-free forums are those with good moderators.

By what metric was this shown to not work?

I've been on lots of forums where the only rules were "no personal attacks and no porn" and they worked just fine. If the forum has a topic, then moderating to keep on topic is reasonable. Polite disagreement and discussion is the hallmark of a healthy forum.

There is of course more to curating a community than its moderation policy.

Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

#377

Post by brlewis »

arman_ashrafian wrote: post #368

This is not an answer but on a similar note, has anyone watched the latest Joe Rogan Experience with Daryl Davis. He is a black man who convinced Klan Members to leave the KKK. Amazing podcast. Maybe the only way to stop toxicity/polarity is to show real conversations with real people.

Successful persuasion stories are always interesting to me, but at over 2.5 hours I'm unlikely to watch this whole thing. Can you please list some key takeaways? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGTQ0Wj6yIg

Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

#378

Post by kody »

noirbot wrote: post #367
tayo42 wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What video game forums compared at all to 4chans /b/? Every where banned you for gore, child porn, harassment, encouraging suicide. I really don't think you should be trying to normalize 4chan as thats just the way the internet is.

There is/was also a profound difference between /b/ and most of the rest of 4chan though. Not all of the site is /b/, that's just the most famous. It definitely set some of the culture of the other boards, but not to that same degree. The video game/tabletop game boards on 4chan were fairly normal for boards at that time, and it's not like everyone who was active on 4chan was there to post or read /b/. You might dip…

Good point. I was framing the conversation with 4chan as a whole, not just /b/. Big difference.

Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

#379

Post by menacingly »

Virtually everyone can agree that toxic voices are undesirable, it's the equivalent of saying "evil people should be in jail"

Well, of course, but it's our inability to mutually agree on the terms "bad" and "toxic" that makes this policy fundamentally impractical, and freedom of expression the only workable solution.

These are not new problems, they're old problems in a new suit.

Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

#380

Post by oneplane »

asdf21 wrote: post #375
kerkeslager wrote: post #359

I don't know if I know the solution, but I know one thing that isn't the solution: silencing everyone who disagrees with you. A lot of the people complaining about "toxicity" on the internet seem to be under the impression that if we "deplatform" the so-called toxic people, that will fix things. But on the contrary, that makes things worse. If someone says something awful on the internet, and everyone either ignores…

The "toxic" people are trying to be honest about real issues, and they tend to get shouted down for it. Then the real issues persist, decade after decade, but they cannot be talked about, it's too politically incorrect. A few more people try, get shouted down, rinse and repeat the process. Then people wonder why a segment of the population is extremely cynical and bitter and polarized when it comes to any sort of deb…

Hardly; toxic isn't a word for 'people speaking their minds' or 'speaking up about problems'. It's someone who is abusive, unsupportive, or unhealthy emotionally towards others and in some forms themselves. Or so the dictionaries say.
Post reply on HN