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Not everyone has an internal monologue

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Re: Not everyone has an internal monologue

#841

Post by tempestn »

kazarnowicz wrote: post #754
tempestn wrote: post #724

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Say you're planning to write a letter (or an email), but you're not actually sitting at your computer to do it right at that time. You're in the shower, or walking around or whatever. Will you play out specific sentences you intend to include, in your mind? Could you do that if you wanted to?

Not OP, but their description fits mine perfectly. When I write, I don't know what will come out until it does. This goes for this comment (funnily, typing this is not harder because I'm aware of the process - it just pours out) as well as the novel I'm writing. When I'm not writing the novel, but thinking about it, there are two different stages: "thinking about the chapter I plan to write" when I form the sentences…

> "thinking about the chapter I plan to write" when I form the sentences, but that quickly becomes impossible because I can't keep more than a few sentences in my head.

I mean, I doubt I could keep more than a few sentences in my head without any mistakes, although if I were to mentally rehearse more than that they would likely come back to me to some degree as I went to write it out. As you form the sentences, is it like silently talking to yourself (how I'd describe my experience)? Or something else?

Re: Not everyone has an internal monologue

#842

Post by 1auralynn »

GistNoesis wrote: post #157
1auralynn wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think some people are just wired to be super verbal/auditory and don't have as strong pattern or visual/symbolic skills. For example, a friend of mine who is a fantastic poet - VERY skilled verbally - told me that she was one of those kids who had to move their lips when reading, and she never actually learned to read the way I do (where words are just visual symbols that form patterns and have not that much to do…

I looked at your VR expression platform (not yet tested in VR) I see it as a kind of non-linear language experience, where you pick objects and conjure them to express yourself, that I would have greatly enjoy when I was a kid instead of reading/writing. (I'm not yet sure the UI is still mature enough to not get in the way of the thoughts). Snapchat with its way of communication with pictures also got this right. My…

Hey, thanks! Yeah, my main talent is translating written information into symbolic/visual content/mental models... One of my goals is to allow people who have different brain styles access to the same models. Particularly in biology, where the prerequisite to understanding is to first learn a bunch of jargon - I think this is totally unecessary and shuts a lot of brilliant people out.

Re: Not everyone has an internal monologue

#843

Post by 1auralynn »

vitaflo wrote: post #553
1auralynn wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think some people are just wired to be super verbal/auditory and don't have as strong pattern or visual/symbolic skills. For example, a friend of mine who is a fantastic poet - VERY skilled verbally - told me that she was one of those kids who had to move their lips when reading, and she never actually learned to read the way I do (where words are just visual symbols that form patterns and have not that much to do…

>I think some people are just wired to be super verbal/auditory and don't have as strong pattern or visual/symbolic skills. I think it depends on the context. I internally vocalize when I read and I'm not entirely sure how anyone is able to not do so. To me reading fast means hearing myself talk fast, which I just can't comprehend. But it also means reading for me is hard because I need to take breaks in reading to v…

Agreed, it's definitely a spectrum - there are times I'm reading and I can definitely hear myself vocalizing. But, when I get really deep into a book, that voice almost completely goes away.

Another interesting note is that I have a VERY hard time reading poetry in my normal reading style, and have to stop and pretty much sound it out in order to comprehend it.

Re: Not everyone has an internal monologue

#844

Post by Blake_Emigro »

I sent the link to my girlfriend, and she didn't find it very interesting until I told her that I don't have this internal monologue, and it turns out she does. Neither of us knew about the other scenario. I visualize and feel things and only use my internal voice if I'm picturing talking to someone else. Even when I'm reading, I don't hear an internal voice. We've watched the Dexter series together and I thought that all of his internal voice was for added drama!

Re: Not everyone has an internal monologue

#845

Post by abathur »

mannykannot wrote: post #802
abathur wrote: post #663

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Say to who, when, why? I wouldn't include thinking through upcoming conversations, texts, tweets, emails, posts, presentations, or phone calls. Let's say you need to run three errands and eat dinner on the way home. How do you decide what to do when, and make sure you have what you need?

To no-one in particular. It is as if I were going to speak my thoughts on whatever the topic of the moment is. To me, that seems very different to listening to a voice. Thre's no homunculus, virtual or otherwise, telling me what to think. I wrote elsewhere that this might just be an illusion - how it seems to me when, and only when, I am paying attention to what it is like to think.

Ah, that clarifies somewhat.

The framing feels odd to me. If I'm rehearsing as if I were going to speak my thoughts, I'm concerned with trying to communicate. I'm trying different turns of phrase, levels of detail, and organizational strategies.

The descriptions I've seen so far make me think people who "hear" the voice loosely subdivide into groups who feel like they're talking to themselves and hear the voice, people who feel like they are listening to their own voice speak, and people who feel like they're listening to third-party narrator(s).

When I'm thinking through something lingually, I'm phrasing out the initial problem, phrasing through what I know about it and testing its rigor with counter-points and what-ifs and does-it-help-tos. Language isn't the focus, just the medium.

It's like working something out in a notebook or text document, minus the pen/paper or keyboard/screen. It's also like talking to myself, without the judgmental glances. It isn't as effective--it doesn't scale up to thorny/sprawling problems as well--as vocalizing or taking notes (or both).

Re: Not everyone has an internal monologue

#846

Post by Erlich_Bachman »

kbenson wrote: post #826
Erlich_Bachman wrote: post #691

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is definitely not true, at least most people don't experience it this way once they learn meditation/mindfulness/etc. What happens instead is that if you are in the moment, you can much more easily see and feel which things actually exist in the current moment for you to consider, and to actually react to those surroundings that actually matter, instead of those that have been served up by the internal dialog wh…

I would argue that perhaps your idea of living in the moment is more like mostly living in the moment. To truly live fully in the moment would be to react to stimuli as they were encountered, wouldn't it? If so, then to truly live in the moment would be to ignore most the ramifications of what you say or did, beyond what you could internalize, as to act without forethought is to strip away all we do to try to tame ou…

If it is 10AM and I need to plan for my meeting at 3PM, and I need to consider the needs of the person I am going to meet - all of these details exist in my mind "in the moment". I can use those stimuli in the moment to plan out everything I need, in the moment. Even though I plan something in the future, I move those plans in my mind which exist there as a moment, as images or words or etc.

Once you start practicing mindfulness or meditation, you very easily see these distinctions. Yes, there is a way to use those concepts in a literal sense in which "in the moment" would mean that you can never consider anything else than your immediate surroundings. However most spiritual teachings or meditation retreats or people who say that this thing has helped them in their life, mean it in a more practical way.

Perhaps "being in the moment" is not the best phrase to really explain what they mean here and there is a lot of space for confusion and misunderstanding. But it is just the phrase that they usually use.

Re: Not everyone has an internal monologue

#847

Post by jodrellblank »

kazarnowicz wrote: post #765
jodrellblank wrote: post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is, Superman has a long internal struggle between his desire to do right and his desire to give up in the face of so many people suffering, he may be America’s Boy Scout but he works hard and he keeps a low profile and he is modern day Sisyphus - skipping out on his everyday life to go to unpleasant places alone and deal with unpleasant people, save lives, and come back to .. a journalist notepad and a…

This is an incorrect understanding of the nature of the movie, imho. Neo is a philosophical super-hero, not a physical, and so it's unfair to compare him to physical super-heroes. The character is established in the scene where he wakes up, having done something on his computer. He has books on philosophy (Simulacra and Simulation). He's obviously been searching for a long time, and his _mind_ is something most minds…

That's way beyond me. What is a "philosophical super-hero" - in what way is any amount of philosophy heroic at all, let alone super-heroic?

Re: Not everyone has an internal monologue

#848

Post by walleeee »

ninkendo wrote: post #414
perl4ever wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"interviewing myself in a variety of roles to navigate my thoughts on things" I used to from time to time imagine my half of a conversation in which I was showing around someone notable who had traveled through time to get to the present day. Maybe someone from 1,000 years ago or maybe from 50. That is, for entertainment, not to cope with anything. I never felt like my imagination was quite good enough to turn it int…

> I used to from time to time imagine my half of a conversation in which I was showing around someone notable who had traveled through time to get to the present day. Maybe someone from 1,000 years ago or maybe from 50. That is, for entertainment, not to cope with anything. I never felt like my imagination was quite good enough to turn it into fiction. I do this exact same thing. I also have conversations with random…

> I also have conversations with random people in my life, explaining what I’m doing and what I’m thinking to them. When I have an inner monologue, I don’t think of it as talking to “myself”, but rather the imagined presence of some friend or family member. I have no idea how normal this is.

Also do this. Very rarely to "myself", nearly always someone else.

Re: Not everyone has an internal monologue

#849

Post by jamiek88 »

not_kurt_godel wrote: post #688
okareaman wrote: post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like hell to me. I don't have an internal monolog. I think in visuals. I am a quiet person. I am a better programmer for it I think. I visualize the structure of a program I am writing and pair programming would also be hell for me.

I definitely am capable of thinking non-verbally, and I agree it can help with programming. But I just can't wrap my head around not having an internal monologue at all. How did you even write this comment? What was the process that led you to put together this particular series of words, if not 'hearing' them in your own mind as an expression of your thoughts first? Edit: Thinking on this more, I may not have had an…

This fascinates me as I remeber this moment too - I was about 5 or 6 though and it was going into my grandmothers back garden through an arch and I was like fully 'awake' for the first time - I had vague feelings of memories prior to this but I do remember the voice becoming aware.

I've never had anyone else remember or experience this before and I think its important.

Re: Not everyone has an internal monologue

#850

Post by bananamerica »

TimTheTinker wrote: post #563
bananamerica wrote: post #542

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, it is so satisfying when a conversation hits a branch you worked on for hours on end! Very useful for dating and job interviews. Especially for people with foot-in-mouth disease [1] [1] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/foot-in-mouth_disease

As a man with Aspergers, that sounds so useful.. and while I can often simulate conversations in my head, real-world conversations with real people almost never play out the same way. It probably has to do with having little ability to intuitively understand what other people would think.

My psychologist once thought I might be on the spectrum, but IDK. I do have a few symptoms including difficulty communicating, but I plan so heavily for every situation that others hardly notice.
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