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Not everyone has an internal monologue

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Re: Not everyone has an internal monologue

#751
It's more of a dialogue / part line but yeah.

Now here's another one to bake your noodle:

Ask your friends who aren't native speakers of their day-to-day language if their monologue is in their first tongue, or day-to-day tongue

Re: Not everyone has an internal monologue

#752
I have both this and aphantasia. Meaning I don't normally hear my thoughts or see anything in my mind. I am able to kinda hear myself, but i have to almost hum. I can not see anything at all the vast majority of the time, but sometimes I feel like I start to see something simple and it quickly goes away

Re: Not everyone has an internal monologue

#754
post #646

I would say I don't have an internal monologue. But that doesn't mean my mind isn't wandering all over the place. I don't talk to myself, I don't play out conversations in my head. Instead it's more like a collection of "thoughts", or "images", or visualizing myself "doing". I can get extremely caught up in this. There's also an awful lot of contemplating objects, observing features, visualizing how they interact. Ve…

Say you're planning to write a letter (or an email), but you're not actually sitting at your computer to do it right at that time. You're in the shower, or walking around or whatever. Will you play out specific sentences you intend to include, in your mind? Could you do that if you wanted to?

Not OP, but their description fits mine perfectly. When I write, I don't know what will come out until it does. This goes for this comment (funnily, typing this is not harder because I'm aware of the process - it just pours out) as well as the novel I'm writing. When I'm not writing the novel, but thinking about it, there are two different stages: "thinking about the chapter I plan to write" when I form the sentences, but that quickly becomes impossible because I can't keep more than a few sentences in my head.

When I'm not in front of the computer, I often abandon this process and instead focus on the larger concepts: the alien species and their evolution and civilization, the plot and the major events that need to be there. These are all concepts or scenes. I don't want to say they're "visual", they're more "concepts".

I can compare this to wanting a cup of coffee. I don't think "I would like a cup of coffee" (although that is what I might say if I have to vocalize it). It's more a feeling (wanting) and a concept (a cup of warm coffee). The label underlying the concept is secondary.

When I think of my novel in the shower, I haven't the slightest idea idea how I exactly will get to the major event at the end (because there are several major events before that which I haven't gotten to). This can only unfold when I write.

Edit: I just did the "Vividness of Visual Imagery Questionnaire" and I don't have aphantasia, but I realize that when asked about scenery that I've seen, it's easier to have a clear picture, whereas completely imaginary scenarios are concepts, rather than vivid images.

Re: Not everyone has an internal monologue

#755

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like a nice form of meditation, but: > count it without thinking numbers ...what? Are you telling me you can do this for some arbitrary period of time and then tell me the number of breaths you took, if asked? I find that really difficult to believe...

Count like rhythmic tapping. Same way you can tap your finger four times without counting, and you can do four taps four times without counting those. Maybe more a musical skill.

I tried this right now and noticed that I count tap for the first time. But the most important thing is that all of them are different and form a repeatable pattern. So brain just remembers the sensation of the fourth tap and I can tap in fourths subconsciously for a while.

The other way to deal with this exercise is just tapping for the odd count in one place and for the even in another. So you know when the fourth tap is because you subconsciously know it was long enough time after the second one and it is in the right place on the table.

Re: Not everyone has an internal monologue

#756
To answer some of the questions that the author posed, how do people without an internal monologue formulate ideas, maybe think about it this way: Those voices in your head, how do they formulate ideas? Before the words form, there's a construct - slightly out of reach, an uncontrollable yet influenceable bubbling. That voice in your head is not your brain - it's not your thoughts, it more like a second mouth and your brain pulling the strings.

I presume.

Of course, I'm not in your head, so I couldn't tell you for sure.

I've never realised that there was this divide between people, but it actually makes a lot of sense to me. Some people have a barrier, a pre-speech-speech, other people don't. Some have more neurons or less neurons in this half-way house. I have a vague recollection of people reporting losing their internal monologue after a lobotomy, but I may be wrong on that.

If I had to guess, with my programmer-with-very-little-neuro-science background, it seems like a natural way that our brains form. Sometimes all the neurons specialise for speech directly connected to your mouth, other times a cluster of neurons specialise for speech with a disconnect. I suspect like most things, it isn't fully genetic - though it probably plays a part.

Personally, I find myself monologuing the first few words that I'm typing, and from then on I'm reading it off the screen. I have an idea of where I want the sentence to go, then I re-read it and decide better of it.

It does mean that writing emails especially, takes me an absolute age to say something remarkably simple. Speech is unaffected, though I'm never the loudest voice in the room and am particularly hesitant to butt in (and feel really bad when I try)

When I replay arguments with a particularly frustrating person, I often find myself quietly vocalising as the emotion rises.

And when I have a mental block on a word (which happened a couple of times writing this - "construct" is still not the right word above, but I can't find a better one), often the voice in my head will still keep playing with words to try and prompt the rest of my brain to do its job. I would love to see whether internal monologues make for better or worse wordsmiths. Or the effect the divide has on meditation.

Also, possibly related, I find it very very difficult to visualise pictures in my head. I dream fine (possibly in black and white - which was how I trained myself out of bedwetting as a kid), but asking me to imagine a picture of a beach, the picture is horribly hazy.

Re: Not everyone has an internal monologue

#757

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, it is so satisfying when a conversation hits a branch you worked on for hours on end! Very useful for dating and job interviews. Especially for people with foot-in-mouth disease [1] [1] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/foot-in-mouth_disease

As a man with Aspergers, that sounds so useful.. and while I can often simulate conversations in my head, real-world conversations with real people almost never play out the same way. It probably has to do with having little ability to intuitively understand what other people would think.

From my experience, I think a lot of it is due to the fact that you can't really surprise yourself. In the conversation in your head, you try to always be the 'winner' of the debuate, and part of that is to try and come up with remarks from your 'opponent' for which you have gotcha replies. Except you know what your 'opponent' is going to say because that's you. In real life, the opponent is someone else and they may surprise you.

Re: Not everyone has an internal monologue

#758

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like a nice form of meditation, but: > count it without thinking numbers ...what? Are you telling me you can do this for some arbitrary period of time and then tell me the number of breaths you took, if asked? I find that really difficult to believe...

Count like rhythmic tapping. Same way you can tap your finger four times without counting, and you can do four taps four times without counting those. Maybe more a musical skill.

This is called subitizing (or subitization). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subitizing

Re: Not everyone has an internal monologue

#759

Unfathomable to me. My mind is constantly racing, playing out different conversations, interviewing myself in a variety of roles to navigate my thoughts on things (one day I'm the president of the US talking about foreign policy, another day I'm a big tech CEO navigating the diversity questions). I constantly have something in my ears to tune myself out, podcasts or music. After being diagnosed w/ ADHD I realize I'm…

This is exactly like me. Never knew others with such internal dialogues. Though, I don't know about ADHD. Have a focus problem a bit...

Re: Not everyone has an internal monologue

#760

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For people who experience having an internal monologue: Suppose you see a bagel on the kitchen table in the morning and decide whether or not you're hungry enough to eat it. Does that process involve an internally experienced stream of words (whether "audible in your mind's ear" or not) like "I'm pretty hungry" or "I bet that bagel would taste good"? Is this what it would be mean to have an internal monologue? Becaus…

> Does that process involve an internally experienced stream of words (whether "audible in your mind's ear" or not) like "I'm pretty hungry" or "I bet that bagel would taste good"? Yes. I can also do this: > decide to eat a bagel without experiences any words. ...but I prefer to think consciously about my actions. Doing too many things without internally verbalizing the decision-making process makes me feel like a be…

What if it’s something more nuanced than what words can express in a concise way? Do you have to slow down your train of thought? E.g. the first bite of that Proust’s madeleine probably didn’t last several minutes...
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