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More Than 750M Worldwide Would Migrate If They Could

news.gallup.com

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Re: More Than 750M Worldwide Would Migrate If They Could

#61

Post by gbrown »

notyourwork wrote: post #40
orf wrote: post #13

Looking at those numbers, isn’t the EU the most desired place to migrate to? Feels odd to not split the USA into its member states while splitting Europe up. How many of those potential migrants want to move to Texas vs Spain?

An American citizen can freely move to any state in the United States. A citizen of European countries may or may not be able to freely move to other European countries without citizenship related changes, visas or other sponsorship.

Even within the EU? I thought that was largely the point.

Re: More Than 750M Worldwide Would Migrate If They Could

#62

Post by skywhopper »

eximius wrote: post #25
fehyjn wrote: post #5

Still don’t understand why I can’t just move to another country... I have a degree, no criminal records. But I need visas, permits, etc. Why all this difficulties?

Example: San Francisco. Immigration policies aren't just about 'keeping the bad ones out', it's also about 'hey, how many people can we realistically bring into this economy over a given timeframe'?

You have to couple immigration policies with compatible housing, zoning, and social policies. Immigration policy is not the only lever.

Re: More Than 750M Worldwide Would Migrate If They Could

#63

Post by remarkEon »

baybal2 wrote: post #26

I'd add some background to what fehyjn says below. The entire world was relatively borderess prior to 20th century, and it was completely outside of humanly possible for the state anywhere to keep tap on every individual. If you talk about the period from medieval, to early renaissance. It was very natural for every polity to want to get more subjects. Feudal lords couldn't have been more happy to see more people mig…

Prior to the 20th century we also didn't have mass transit and air travel. That pre-Renaissance nations didn't have borders as we have them today isn't really a meaningful distinction because, as you say, the Nation-State didn't really meaningfully exist.

Re: More Than 750M Worldwide Would Migrate If They Could

#64

Post by gnulinux »

fehyjn wrote: post #5

Still don’t understand why I can’t just move to another country... I have a degree, no criminal records. But I need visas, permits, etc. Why all this difficulties?

I have a degree from US, been living here for 6 years now, been working here 2 years now, still cannot move here and need to wait about 3 more years to get a Green Card.

Re: More Than 750M Worldwide Would Migrate If They Could

#65

Post by fxtentacle »

jermaustin1 wrote: post #57
jaywalk wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't want to take someone's job, or milk the welfare system How are they supposed to know that? A two year vacation is extraordinarily strange.

Proof of self sufficiency.

I'm pretty sure they offer that, but it might cost you lots of money.

For example, Singapore requires you to have SG$ 2.5 Mio in assets if you want an unlimited visa.

Re: More Than 750M Worldwide Would Migrate If They Could

#66

Post by bernawil »

jermaustin1 wrote: post #43

First World Problem, I know, but: I don't understand why I should not be allowed to take a 2 year vacation in another country without having to leave every 6 months and pray the border agent doesn't find it suspicious that I keep coming back. I don't want to take someone's job, or milk the welfare system, and I would be a net positive to anywhere I decided to vacation (sales tax/VAT, property tax, hotel tax, income t…

That's how rules/law work. If they'd let people enter 2 years on a tourist visa, for every person like you they'd get 100 with the intention to settle. So better ban it outright.

Re: More Than 750M Worldwide Would Migrate If They Could

#67

Post by sp332 »

petschge wrote: post #54
notyourwork wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An American citizen can freely move to any state in the United States. A citizen of European countries may or may not be able to freely move to other European countries without citizenship related changes, visas or other sponsorship.

Within the EU movement if fairly unrestricted and does not require anything that you listed. Go check http://www.europarl.europa.eu/factsheets/en/sheet/147/free-m...

Schengen includes some non-EU countries and still excludes a bunch of European countries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Schengen_Agreement_La...

Re: More Than 750M Worldwide Would Migrate If They Could

#68

Post by mcantelon »

baybal2 wrote: post #26

I'd add some background to what fehyjn says below. The entire world was relatively borderess prior to 20th century, and it was completely outside of humanly possible for the state anywhere to keep tap on every individual. If you talk about the period from medieval, to early renaissance. It was very natural for every polity to want to get more subjects. Feudal lords couldn't have been more happy to see more people mig…

Animals protect their territory. Fierce tribalism has long existed. I find the idea that people could just live anywhere, back in the day, to be hard to believe. In some places? Sure. In "the entire world"? Not so much. Spain was invaded by the Moors, back in the day, because someone opened the gates, from the inside, for them for example.

Re: More Than 750M Worldwide Would Migrate If They Could

#69

Post by sp332 »

gbrown wrote: post #61
notyourwork wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An American citizen can freely move to any state in the United States. A citizen of European countries may or may not be able to freely move to other European countries without citizenship related changes, visas or other sponsorship.

Even within the EU? I thought that was largely the point.

GP said "Europe", not "EU".

Re: More Than 750M Worldwide Would Migrate If They Could

#70

Post by jsnk »

baybal2 wrote: post #26

I'd add some background to what fehyjn says below. The entire world was relatively borderess prior to 20th century, and it was completely outside of humanly possible for the state anywhere to keep tap on every individual. If you talk about the period from medieval, to early renaissance. It was very natural for every polity to want to get more subjects. Feudal lords couldn't have been more happy to see more people mig…

Your comment still lacks more context why migration wasn't a big deal and why more decentralized power structure didn't need to control migration as much.

1. Human labour was much more critical to survival than today. It was a great thing if one family from another town moved under you cause they'll farm and pay more taxes. Now labour is cheap and isn't critical survival. In fact, there's so much labour that social ills that arise from unemployment is a way bigger problem.

2. Migration happened in much shorter proximity. Therefore, the difference in language, culture, ethnicity and religion were much smaller than the effects of migration today. The host society wasn't concerned about huge changes of their society as much as today where changes of biblical scale are happen in a matter of decades.

3. There was no welfare. If you failed as a migrant, the cost of the failure is paid by yourself. If you fail as a migrant in the host society today, you still have free healthcare, education, citizenship for your children, child care, endless support system to sustain your living in the country. It makes sense the modern state wants control over who enters their state much more.

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