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Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

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51–60 of 859 posts

Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

#51
Encourage people to participate in physical social gatherings that center around non-political issues, like hobbies.

We need to start emphasizing what we have in common, help people see that ultimately we're really not all that different from each other. The internet lets people hide behind this isolating veneer that makes it too easy to just shout at each other and behave in extreme ways that would never be socially acceptable in the real world. Interacting in real life significantly moderates people's behaviour and when social media and the internet facilitate segregation and amplification of extremes, spending more time in person might really do us a lot of good.

We need to put people in a context where politics is irrelevant and a shared interest has the opportunity to bond people who would otherwise not meet. It's the only way I see of countering Identity Politics that try to be all consuming.

It would also be helpful to encourage people to focus on more positive events. Outrage culture is a thing, only exacerbated by social media, where rage = clicks/views = money. We need to change the economics of this equation. We would really benefit from a culture that gave more attention to people doing good rather than just focusing on the villains in society.

Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

#53
Responsibility. Because of the inherent remote and anonymous context of on-line dialogs or exchanges, they don't have the same level of personal contact as direct person-to-person exchanges. People say things on-line that they would not, or wouldn't dare to dare to, say in-person. So some of the greatest advantages of the internet, it's anonymity and remote nature, can be turned into it's greatest threats.

Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

#54

Stop responding to it. No seriously, just stop. This isn't a "complex problem that needs nuanced technical and legislative solutions". Back in the old day, there was this saying. "Do not feed the trolls". Sadly, we've forgotten that. Our current approach is, "create rigorous 30 minute point by point take down videos to defeat their point of view". Our urge to debate and correct people who are wrong just fuels them ma…

This!!!

There was even a "emoji" of beating a troll back in the days o ubb and vbb

Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

#55
Polarisation and 'toxicity' are two completely different things.

The fact that people have increasingly divergent views (or rather, are voicing them, they probably always held those views) is just a fact of life. It's not unique to any online community or even any country. It might be simply the fact that too much diversity is inherently destined to collapse.

'Toxicity' is a made-up new meaning for the word, which means anything undesirable from the point of view of the speaker.

Labelling the former as the later is one of the root causes of the feedback loop you're describing.

The first step is for both sides of polarising issues to acknowledge each other, that both think they're doing the right thing, and that neither is 'toxic'. Without that common ground, dialogue can never begin.

Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

#56

Stop responding to it. No seriously, just stop. This isn't a "complex problem that needs nuanced technical and legislative solutions". Back in the old day, there was this saying. "Do not feed the trolls". Sadly, we've forgotten that. Our current approach is, "create rigorous 30 minute point by point take down videos to defeat their point of view". Our urge to debate and correct people who are wrong just fuels them ma…

We found a lot of lies during the UK election last month. Not difference in opinions, not beliefs about whay may or will happen, easily proven lies, posted across community forums, copied and pasted to other ones, and repeated in an increasing cresendo

People then believe those lies, they repeat them, and even if they don't those lies sink into their subconcious and change their behavior, not necessarily today or tomorrow, but for the next 30 years

Ignoring them doesn't fix the problem.

Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

#57
post #50

Stop responding to it. No seriously, just stop. This isn't a "complex problem that needs nuanced technical and legislative solutions". Back in the old day, there was this saying. "Do not feed the trolls". Sadly, we've forgotten that. Our current approach is, "create rigorous 30 minute point by point take down videos to defeat their point of view". Our urge to debate and correct people who are wrong just fuels them ma…

I think its a fallacy at this point to assume the people pushing toxic or objectively wrong viewpoints are trolls. If it ever was 100% trolls, that time has passed and their target audience is expanding their work in earnest. We now have people who 100% believe objectively wrong things and have an obsession to spread their belief as fact. Edit: If there is a solution to this issue, it will depend on the ratio of thes…

When someone on the street corner tells you the world is ending you ignore them. You dont need a complex technical or social solution.

When someone tells me that xyz plant oil cures cancer or the earth is flat... I ignore them. If I want to be a troll I may play along or challenge them if its fun.

That's the internet. There have always been nutters- they just found other nutters to talk with and you get a loud feedback loop. You can happily mute them still.

Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

#58
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think its a fallacy at this point to assume the people pushing toxic or objectively wrong viewpoints are trolls. If it ever was 100% trolls, that time has passed and their target audience is expanding their work in earnest. We now have people who 100% believe objectively wrong things and have an obsession to spread their belief as fact. Edit: If there is a solution to this issue, it will depend on the ratio of thes…

When someone on the street corner tells you the world is ending you ignore them. You dont need a complex technical or social solution. When someone tells me that xyz plant oil cures cancer or the earth is flat... I ignore them. If I want to be a troll I may play along or challenge them if its fun. That's the internet. There have always been nutters- they just found other nutters to talk with and you get a loud feedba…

What happens when your child, sibling, friend, parent, or lover is saying those things that they got from the internet?

Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

#59
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you don't feel strongly on the topic of vaccination, going out of your way to bash anti-vaxxers is great at signalling how you are scientifically woke. The GP is positing that people who bash anti-vaxxers do so overwhelmingly out of this motivation rather than true pro-vaccine activism.

I understand the GP's take. I think it's both incorrect and uncharitable. People care about their kids more than imaginary internet points.

I disagree. The loudest activists too often tend to be younger people who either don't have kids, or are /r/childfree types who actively disdain the concept.

Of course, by "activists", there's a difference between the genuine voices, versus the Reddit or HN meme-slingers. The latter group seems louder due to style. While they happen to be on the right side (from my POV), they're still quite awful as people.

Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

#60
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think its a fallacy at this point to assume the people pushing toxic or objectively wrong viewpoints are trolls. If it ever was 100% trolls, that time has passed and their target audience is expanding their work in earnest. We now have people who 100% believe objectively wrong things and have an obsession to spread their belief as fact. Edit: If there is a solution to this issue, it will depend on the ratio of thes…

When someone on the street corner tells you the world is ending you ignore them. You dont need a complex technical or social solution. When someone tells me that xyz plant oil cures cancer or the earth is flat... I ignore them. If I want to be a troll I may play along or challenge them if its fun. That's the internet. There have always been nutters- they just found other nutters to talk with and you get a loud feedba…

The problem is when people with such beliefs acquire position of power or influence, which sadly has already happened.
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