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Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

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Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

#31

Post by pdpi »

jjoonathan wrote: post #24
muzani wrote: post #7

I've been active online since 2000. There was a theory in 2004, known as GIFT: Normal Person + Anonymity + Audience = Total Fuckwad Guess what? People without anonymity are total fuckwads too - this happens on Facebook, Instagram and Twitch, in an era where you could probably find someone's personal details if you look hard enough. I think the key is audience . Bullying feels good for a lot of people. Bullies will go…

> You see people picking on anti-vax, flat earthers, Justin Bieber, not so much because they do harm, but because they're easy targets to hold down. Your other examples were solid, but anti-vax absolutely does cause harm, and it seems inappropriate to dismiss the possibility that in the case of anti-vax people are motivated by genuine fear for our collective safety and that of our children.

Even if you don't feel strongly on the topic of vaccination, going out of your way to bash anti-vaxxers is great at signalling how you are scientifically woke. The GP is positing that people who bash anti-vaxxers do so overwhelmingly out of this motivation rather than true pro-vaccine activism.

Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

#32

Post by bjt2n3904 »

Stop responding to it.

No seriously, just stop. This isn't a "complex problem that needs nuanced technical and legislative solutions".

Back in the old day, there was this saying. "Do not feed the trolls". Sadly, we've forgotten that.

Our current approach is, "create rigorous 30 minute point by point take down videos to defeat their point of view". Our urge to debate and correct people who are wrong just fuels them making more content. A troll needs reactions to survive. Just downvote and move along.

Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

#33

Post by themagician »

Make it harder to use, like it was.

Doing things on the internet used to be harder. It used to be a network of loosely interconnected websites. You wanted to have a voice you made a website. You wanted to talk to others you joined a chat room or newsgroup or message board.

Then we invented comments. Now we have apps with SSO. You don’t even need to make a username anymore. The entirety of the internet congealed into 50 or so web properties.

Slashdot is still around. It’s relatively hard to use. Their moderation system brutally punishes trolls and rewards good behavior. It also allows for jokes and sarcasm.

Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

#34

Post by epicgiga »

What? What's wrong with it?

The arrogance behind thinking "how do we fix the way everyone behaves"... jesus holy eff.

Vigorous debate is good, even if you get manic israel vs palestine or weirdly spergy tabs vs spaces spats as a side effect.

Writing is the tip of the iceberg. I used to run a forum, and the write versus read rates are enormous. 1 to 20+ ratios.

Argument brings out the best ideas. That energetic passion, that desire to win, makes people give it all they've got. And people read. And people can detect between wisdom and dumbassery. And they learn and benefit from it.

It's a key factor in educating the next generation. It's good. Go clutch your pearls elsewhere.

Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

#35

Post by jjoonathan »

pdpi wrote: post #31
jjoonathan wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You see people picking on anti-vax, flat earthers, Justin Bieber, not so much because they do harm, but because they're easy targets to hold down. Your other examples were solid, but anti-vax absolutely does cause harm, and it seems inappropriate to dismiss the possibility that in the case of anti-vax people are motivated by genuine fear for our collective safety and that of our children.

Even if you don't feel strongly on the topic of vaccination, going out of your way to bash anti-vaxxers is great at signalling how you are scientifically woke. The GP is positing that people who bash anti-vaxxers do so overwhelmingly out of this motivation rather than true pro-vaccine activism.

I understand the GP's take. I think it's both incorrect and uncharitable. People care about their kids more than imaginary internet points.

Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

#37

Post by dclusin »

We're essentially feeling negative effects produced by sorting a list of items. Currently they are sorted based on friend interactions and other criterion; mainly popularity. They sort this way because it increases engagement. What we've also found out is that this is also negatively effecting peoples emotional health.

My personal feeling is that reverse chronological order with maybe throttling your chronic over-sharing friends would probably go a long way to helping blunt some of the negative effects we see today. But it would also lower engagement and lead to revenue losses so they probably haven't earnestly considered it. Kinda like how the cigarette companies don't want you to know that smoking is bad for you, because you might smoke less.

Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

#38

Post by criddell »

kup0 wrote: post #14

Disclaimer: I acknowledge that "toxic" is a loosely-defined term that can be thrown around at people that really aren't... I'm mostly meaning people that go out of their way to be negative/harmful in unnecessary ways, harmful forms of trolling, the inability for people to have a discussion without it dissolving into attacks/etc extremely fast... that kind of thing I think we're looking back at history with rose-tinte…

I don't think OP is claiming toxicity is new, but the extreme polarization of everything is.

Look into the lives of politicians in the 1950's and 1960's. They frequently socialized together and worked together. They were able to find common ground. Every victory for one party wasn't necessarily a loss for the other. How often do you think Mitch McConnell goes out for a drink with Bernie Sanders?

Tribalism, especially in relation to things like sports, is super-old. But it's spread to all parts of our lives. Often it's semi-friendly (are you a vi or emacs person?), but it can get out of control.

So how do you fix it? That's tough, especially when every news story seems to have two equal but opposite sides.

Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

#40

Post by throw_m239339 »

I don't think anything really changed. Only the scale of things, with platforms like Twitter that can be extremely viral.

Everybody remember the collective insanity of the Covington Catholic school fiasco where journalists and celebrities were publicly wishing for the death of a bunch of kids wearing MAGA hats or at the very least getting them doxxed or hurt all because of a one minute video taken out of context. And those who approached the story in a cautious manner were called out by the rest for being to soft or accused of being part of "the bigots", Ironically, the account that initially twitted the video snippet was banned after a few days.

I don't think the population is more deranged than before though, I mean the 70's were pretty violent politically, more than today.

The solution is to quit social media or join smaller communities free of wedge issues and identity politics. Twitter, Facebook or Reddit aren't going to fix themselves, they make money off outrage and petty divisions.

And finally you don't owe activism on a specific cause or an opinion to anyone. It's OK not to have an opinion or not wanting to get involved in a political debate. Anybody that attacks you for refusing to take a stance on any issue should probably be muted/blocked or removed from your life, that person isn't your friend and will try to make you look bad at the first opportunity just get brownie internet points for themselves.

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