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WHO declares coronavirus outbreak a public health emergency

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Re: WHO declares coronavirus outbreak a public health emergency

#381

Post by stef25 »

new2628 wrote: post #372
lopmotr wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're a bit off the mark. Healthcare is cheap in China, but people are even poorer. Only rich people can afford the important stuff. It's common for young people from poor families to work or forgo their education to pay their sick parent's medical costs. Usually old people just die because they can't afford medical care where in the west, they would be treated. Also doctors are poorly paid and commonly supp…

> Imagine getting a vial of homeopathic diluted water and a sugar pill when you complain about a cough. This happens regularly in western europe, especially by pediatricians. The charitable interpretation is that the doctor knows the child will get better in a few days anyway, but has to give _something_ to soothe the parents. Giving the substance-free stuff is better than unnecessarily medicating the child, and plac…

This probably only works with parents who're too dumb to comprehend what's being prescribed, or ones that are ok with homeopathics?

Here in Belgium all the doctors that have seen my kids have no problem saying paracetamol and they'll be fine in a few days.

W-Europe is particularly hostile to medical quackery IMHO.

Re: WHO declares coronavirus outbreak a public health emergency

#382

Post by DailyHN »

lopmotr wrote: post #325
hatenberg wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...because they are not for profit so people can actually afford to get help even if they are poor

I think you're a bit off the mark. Healthcare is cheap in China, but people are even poorer. Only rich people can afford the important stuff. It's common for young people from poor families to work or forgo their education to pay their sick parent's medical costs. Usually old people just die because they can't afford medical care where in the west, they would be treated. Also doctors are poorly paid and commonly supp…

> Insurance? Yes, that exists but the excess is often something like 1/3 the total cost so if you couldn't afford it yourself, you still can't afford it with insurance.

In the USA or China?

Re: WHO declares coronavirus outbreak a public health emergency

#383

Post by zhte415 »

dchichkov wrote: post #328
koheripbal wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The numbers we're getting out of China are a mess and almost entirely useless. There are reports of hospitals turning people away unless they a very sick, and also not testing every ill patient because they're overwhelmed. I've see death certificates posted online with "viral pneumonia" because they aren't able to test everyone - and certainly don't bother testing those who have already died. The errors are both ways…

There was one interesting number though. The Japanese had been evacuating 200 people from Wuhan and found 3 cases. Assume that a plane of evacuees like that is somewhat random sampling. And that evacuees have similar or better hygiene. This puts infection rate at 1% of the population. Official population of Wuhan is 11 million, it is possible that it is larger. This puts the number to 100k cases.

Korea evacuated 400 today, 1 couldn't board the plane because known infected, on arrival 4 were tested and found to be infected. This is consistent with the Japan flight from yesterday that you mention.

Re: WHO declares coronavirus outbreak a public health emergency

#384

Post by hybrid_cluster »

Just trying to keep up with the developments via Twitter and Youtube over the past few days has been detrimental to my mental health.

People are supposedly falling over on the streets in pools of blood; dead people are lying in hospitals unattended; cremation facilities are operating in overdrive and cremation fires can be seen from space - all of it backed up by footage that, at first glance, seems legit but is mostly taken out of context.

I'm a mild hypochondriac and every time one of these posts pops up, I can feel my cortisol spiking. I'm sure I'm not the only one in this regard, and I wonder whether the health costs associated with the spread of misinformation (panic attacks, anxiety, and long term effects) will not outweigh the actual costs of the virus in many countries other than China.

Re: WHO declares coronavirus outbreak a public health emergency

#385

Post by chownie »

parliament32 wrote: post #186
wolco wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No information is available real time. There will always be a lag even with stock trading. Determining what is acceptable for real time depends on the context. A few seconds would be unacceptable for stock information but would be more than enough for a 911 real time notification system to first responders. 12 hours for global viral outbreak stats seems acceptable for real time status.

There's a difference between latency and delay. If I "touch a.txt" then run "ls", and see "a.txt", I'd consider my filesystem realtime. There's no point in being pedantic about "but there's a 50ms delay when I hit enter after typing ls so it's not realtime!!!". "Realtime virus outbreak" implies that the site is somehow automatically identifying where the virus is and updating it's stats, rather than waiting for a hum…

In your example you (human) created a file and you can now request the content of that file (from your filesystem) at any point.

In the given example there's a tracker (updated by humans) and you can see the current state of the tracker at any time (from their database).

I'm not sure what the distinction is here if you consider one realtime and the other not.

Re: WHO declares coronavirus outbreak a public health emergency

#386

Post by zhte415 »

hanniabu wrote: post #59
cheeseblubber wrote: post #43

For those who are referencing the flu and it's mortality rate here are estimates from the CDC for 2019 * 15,000,000 – 21,000,000 who had the flu * 8,200 – 20,000 deaths from the flu The morality rate ranges from 0.03% to 0.09% or 3/10000 9/10000 https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/preliminary-in-season-e...

Any idea what the rates are for the corona virus?

Not being flippant, as you've had good answers already, I can tell you the rate of fear of this novel coronavirus:

100%

Streets are deserted. The few that go out all wear a mask. Restaurants, museums, cafes, bars have been demanded shut across the country, ostensibly until the end of the weekend but I can see this being extended. The first working day after the Chinese New Year was supposed to be February 3rd, but the city I'm in have extended this to February 9th - offices have been told not to open. Shops are open, there is food, and new fresh vegetables, fruits, meats are being stocked.

Re: WHO declares coronavirus outbreak a public health emergency

#387

Post by dsfyu404ed »

stef25 wrote: post #381
new2628 wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Imagine getting a vial of homeopathic diluted water and a sugar pill when you complain about a cough. This happens regularly in western europe, especially by pediatricians. The charitable interpretation is that the doctor knows the child will get better in a few days anyway, but has to give _something_ to soothe the parents. Giving the substance-free stuff is better than unnecessarily medicating the child, and plac…

This probably only works with parents who're too dumb to comprehend what's being prescribed, or ones that are ok with homeopathics? Here in Belgium all the doctors that have seen my kids have no problem saying paracetamol and they'll be fine in a few days. W-Europe is particularly hostile to medical quackery IMHO.

The parents that know they're gonna get a placebo because the kid will get better regardless probably aren't bringing their kids to the doctor for the kinds of ailments that result in a placebo.

Re: WHO declares coronavirus outbreak a public health emergency

#388

Post by _-___________-_ »

mirimir wrote: post #347
Double_a_92 wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've see death certificates posted online with "viral pneumonia" Would that not be a proper reason for a corona virus caused death? Or does it have to be specific if the exact cause is known?

I'd expect that death certificates would specify the specific cause, if it's known. But I don't know if that's true. Either way, it makes the data far less useful.

How is "viral pneumonia" not the specific cause of death?

Re: WHO declares coronavirus outbreak a public health emergency

#389

Post by pabl0rg »

zhte415 wrote: post #383
dchichkov wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was one interesting number though. The Japanese had been evacuating 200 people from Wuhan and found 3 cases. Assume that a plane of evacuees like that is somewhat random sampling. And that evacuees have similar or better hygiene. This puts infection rate at 1% of the population. Official population of Wuhan is 11 million, it is possible that it is larger. This puts the number to 100k cases.

Korea evacuated 400 today, 1 couldn't board the plane because known infected, on arrival 4 were tested and found to be infected. This is consistent with the Japan flight from yesterday that you mention.

So, you are infected? How does it compare to the flu? Are symptoms very different?

Best wishes for your recovery!

Re: WHO declares coronavirus outbreak a public health emergency

#390

Post by cygx »

alisonatwork wrote: post #378
new2628 wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Imagine getting a vial of homeopathic diluted water and a sugar pill when you complain about a cough. This happens regularly in western europe, especially by pediatricians. The charitable interpretation is that the doctor knows the child will get better in a few days anyway, but has to give _something_ to soothe the parents. Giving the substance-free stuff is better than unnecessarily medicating the child, and plac…

In your subsequent comment you add the important point - this is Germany. Having lived both in Germany and (now) in China, i can confirm that both of these countries have a problem with quack medicine. I've never been anywhere else in the world where you need to argue with pharmacists to persuade them to sell you evidence-based medicine. In China there is some historical reason for it - Mao needed something to placat…

Note that homeopathy was invented by a German doctor, Samuel Hahnemann. It grew big at the turn of last century, with hundreds of homeopathic societies with their own apothecaries.

Today, lobbying powers of a profitable industry also play into it.

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