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Not everyone has an internal monologue

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Re: Not everyone has an internal monologue

#561

Post by galaxyLogic »

mindways wrote: post #426
lqet wrote: post #314

I have a serious question to people here describing themselves (as I understand it) as thinking in words and whole sentences: How can you think about concepts which cannot be put into words or for which no words exist? Do you have to come up with elaborate verbal descriptions of abstract concepts in your head before you can think about them? If so, don't you think that any verbal description is essentially incomplete…

A couple ways: 1) By thinking about them in other modes. I have an internal monologue, but it's not so much "the only way I can think" as "a thing that happens that comments as I think, and can be used to talk through things in my head". Eg: I'm also a pretty strong visual/spatial thinker, I can recall scents OK, and I'm reasonably facile with numbers; all of these sorts of thinking / recollection feel different as I…

I think it is a good idea to try to give things names. The named thing need not be very precisely defined, and it can change, or we can find a better name for it or both.

Re: Not everyone has an internal monologue

#562

Post by weavejester »

lqet wrote: post #314

I have a serious question to people here describing themselves (as I understand it) as thinking in words and whole sentences: How can you think about concepts which cannot be put into words or for which no words exist? Do you have to come up with elaborate verbal descriptions of abstract concepts in your head before you can think about them? If so, don't you think that any verbal description is essentially incomplete…

At least in my case, I have visual as well as auditory thoughts. I recently watched a video on how a Stirling Engine worked, and if I wanted to think about how it worked, I wouldn't talk myself through it, I'd just imagine the animated diagram.

Often there are shortcuts, so the internal monologue or visualisation can skip details or words if the end of the sentence is clear. Much like the way speed readers might hit a few key words to get an understanding of a sentence. It makes me wonder if the internal monologue only happens after the thoughts occur, like a narrator, though it doesn't feel that way.

There are still thoughts that are not narrated, like intuitions or moments where I can act without thinking things through. I just tried to work without an internal monologue, and I found it hard to chain thoughts together. Like I could sense what I wanted next, but I needed to have some auditory or visual hook to connect to it.

Re: Not everyone has an internal monologue

#563

Post by TimTheTinker »

bananamerica wrote: post #542
pazimzadeh wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to be like that, and it was helpful in many ways as I seemed to always be ready for wherever a conversation might go. But I wasn't living in the moment. Now I actively stop myself from simulating the various branches of potential conversations. It feels good to live in the moment (shaking my head a little when I feel it starting helps). The downside is that I don't have as many prepared responses and am more e…

On the other hand, it is so satisfying when a conversation hits a branch you worked on for hours on end! Very useful for dating and job interviews. Especially for people with foot-in-mouth disease [1] [1] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/foot-in-mouth_disease

As a man with Aspergers, that sounds so useful.. and while I can often simulate conversations in my head, real-world conversations with real people almost never play out the same way.

It probably has to do with having little ability to intuitively understand what other people would think.

Re: Not everyone has an internal monologue

#564

Post by rangibaby »

gowld wrote: post #537
keenmaster wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have learned to be cautious with two very different types of people (this is not a scientific exercise, take with a grain of salt): - One is people who are constantly negative and cast stones everywhere, but offset that negativity with charm. They can accrue a network of Stockholm-esque followers that would say "he's not an asshole, he's actually a really sweet person." When they perceive a threat from you, or they…

Do you live on the set of Mean Girls? But me, most people are spending their energy trying to get by, with no time for junior high school drama conspiracies. Maybe I'm too useless to be socially manipulated.

Abusive people won’t bother you if they don’t see you as a mark for their games.

Re: Not everyone has an internal monologue

#565

Post by hooande »

saeranv wrote: post #487
40acres wrote: post #105

Unfathomable to me. My mind is constantly racing, playing out different conversations, interviewing myself in a variety of roles to navigate my thoughts on things (one day I'm the president of the US talking about foreign policy, another day I'm a big tech CEO navigating the diversity questions). I constantly have something in my ears to tune myself out, podcasts or music. After being diagnosed w/ ADHD I realize I'm…

I feel like this too. However, I've found I can instantly get into non-verbal focus while playing chess. You might want to give it a shot. FWIW I'm not a particularly good, or experienced player either, just someone that enjoys it.

verbal focus helps my chess. when I think things like "he's trying to mount an attack on my queen's side", verbalized as words, it helps me to understand what I'm seeing in a new way

Re: Not everyone has an internal monologue

#566

Post by etrk »

I remember asking my French teacher if she ever “thought” in French, and she had no idea what I meant. She apparently had no internal monologue.

I assumed there was something with me for “thinking” in words. I tried to train myself to think more abstractly, and maybe it worked to some extent, but I’m not sure this was for the better.

Re: Not everyone has an internal monologue

#567

Post by jaxn »

ludston wrote: post #405
LordFast wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for answering. Makes sense to me.

This "Living in the moment" stuff has depth such that many books have been written on it. It is one of the premises of mindfulness meditation, and Buddhism thoroughly explores this. The summary is that you will be more satisfied if you are not continuously ruminating on the past, or anxiously anticipating future problems, but instead focus on your immediate happiness. e.g. Right now you are comfortable, not in any pa…

Living in the moment is somewhat counter to striving. It's hard (maybe impossible?) to be a builder and a creator without spending some time ruminating on the last and future.

Re: Not everyone has an internal monologue

#568

Post by brunoff »

oh_sigh wrote: post #492
irjustin wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this a left/right brain split specific thing or is there another thing going on? ever explore it? I can do neither of these things. One voice dominates, self speaking, reading, listening to another person talk to me - the rest of them get 'left behind'.

I think it's just practice. I used to be an internal monologue reader into my 20s until I worked to not be one(because I wanted to increase my reading speed). Maybe I was neurally set up to achieve this - I am strongly left handed and have been told by many people they dont understand my thought process on things(not in a bad way, just sort of "where the heck did you come up with that") throughout my life. Just start…

I don't know a lot about the subject, but wouldn't it be included in the price you pay for reading slower due to reading+speaking+listening in the whole process the fact you absorb more? (not defending any side, just questioning)

Re: Not everyone has an internal monologue

#569

Post by etrk »

fouc wrote: post #490
irjustin wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this a left/right brain split specific thing or is there another thing going on? ever explore it? I can do neither of these things. One voice dominates, self speaking, reading, listening to another person talk to me - the rest of them get 'left behind'.

The trick is to read without sounding out the words in your head. Then since you're not thinking in speech when reading, you have room to listen.

I’d heard that this is, to some extent, impossible, because everybody subvocalizes when they read. Wikipedia supports this, but I guess the goal is to minimize subvocalization rather than to eliminate it completely?

“Micro-muscle tests suggest that full and permanent elimination of subvocalizing is impossible.”

I know this is true for me. If I press the tongue to the roof of my mouth while reading, I can’t stop the muscles from moving very slightly as I read.

Re: Not everyone has an internal monologue

#570

Post by jaxn »

gowld wrote: post #539
kaffeemitsahne wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has there been a deflation of the word "gaslighting" recently? I used to understand it as "making person X or others believe person X is crazy (in order to discredit them)" but I see it used much more widely nowadays and I don't really see what it has to do with the scenario in question.

"Gaslighting" now means having a different perspective and asserting it's the correct one or a valid one.

Which is inline with making someone feel they are crazy. Making person x second guess their own perspective.
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