Apple delivers a new redesigned Maps for users in the United States • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple delivers a new redesigned Maps for users in the United States

#291

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jan 30, 2020, 9:54 PM UTC

andrewljohnson wrote: post #288

kylebarron wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've thought for a while that your Gaia Topo layer could be improved, especially because until now I don't think you had any hillshade at all for a topo map! I spent some time checking out your map this morning, and it looks really nice at low zooms, but I'm still a little disappointed at high zooms. At zoom 13 the hillshading ends! For example, at zoom 14, I still much prefer a map with a hillshade (my own work): ht…

That's fair... we chose to drop the shading at that zoom, but we could be wrong. I think some people prefer a cleaner read when zoomed in so far (especially for field use), and shading also makes the tiles larger/slower to download. Gaia GPS does have a separate raster hill-shading layer from ESRI you could layer on top, and we've been considering making our own (we already have an elevation data pipeline and create…

[deleted]

Re: Apple delivers a new redesigned Maps for users in the United States

#292

Post by 0xffff2 » Thu, Jan 30, 2020, 9:54 PM UTC

andrewljohnson wrote: post #47

Shameless plug, but we just shipped our huge Gaia Topo update too. Gaia Topo focuses on the backcountry, and specifically downloading for offline use: https://blog.gaiagps.com/easy-to-read-tiny-to-download-the-a...

I just downloaded the app. Can I not use it at all without an account? If so, why?

Re: Apple delivers a new redesigned Maps for users in the United States

#293

Post by K0SM0S » Thu, Jan 30, 2020, 9:55 PM UTC

SamBam wrote: post #229

oflannabhra wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I seem to remember someone posting their results of testing Google Maps, Apple Maps, and Waze for ETA accuracy, and what you describe was also what they found: Apple Maps was the most accurate, Google Maps was optimistic, but accurate, Waze basically reported the best case scenario. Edit: found the original [0] I've long thought that Waze creates the illusion of saving massive amounts of time, when its benefits are m…

Google Maps also got the person there 5% faster than Apple Maps, in that study. This really does call for a larger study, though. It would be nice to see how the error bars and potential differences come out across different trip times, and different drivers.

You'd probably end with significantly different results based on country. Somehow the underlying logic of mapping AI seems to be more-or-less of a fit for national road systems — for instance in Europe, with lots of discrepancies between borders, it's really hit or miss: in France and Germany I end up on stupid country roads to save 2 minutes on a 2h drive, but that seldom happens in the Netherlands (granted they have a great road infrastructure). Switzerland is a mess too.

My intuition (listening to AI and DL podcasts) is that they just train too-general US-based (or evaluated or reinforced more specifically) models. Anyhow it's a disappointing situation that e.g. Google maps makes way more mistakes today than it did 5 years ago (but it also does more overall, I guess it's a trade-off, e.g. now it's great for public transportation in large enough cities).

Re: Apple delivers a new redesigned Maps for users in the United States

#294

Post by andrewljohnson » Thu, Jan 30, 2020, 9:58 PM UTC

0xffff2 wrote: post #292

andrewljohnson wrote: post #47

Shameless plug, but we just shipped our huge Gaia Topo update too. Gaia Topo focuses on the backcountry, and specifically downloading for offline use: https://blog.gaiagps.com/easy-to-read-tiny-to-download-the-a...

I just downloaded the app. Can I not use it at all without an account? If so, why?

You should be able to use without an account.

There is a Skip button in the top right corner of the opening screen, or the Register screen. Ping me at andrew@gaiagps.com if you can't find it.

Re: Apple delivers a new redesigned Maps for users in the United States

#295

Post by ogre_codes » Thu, Jan 30, 2020, 9:59 PM UTC

theboat wrote: post #251

krrrh wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's worse for consumers in the end though? One profession missing in the parent comment are the researchers innovating on differential privacy. Apple has taken great pains to figure out ways to improve their maps without storing massive amounts of private user data, to the extent that they split routes in half, fuzz addresses, and analyze the start and end of trips independently. There's an argument that Google ha…

While I sympathize with your viewpoint, you're imposing your personal values on consumers who demonstrate their willingness to exchange personal data for free services every day. You and many HN users may balk at this, but most people are ok with trading privacy for real-time traffic predictions. Apple shouldn't receive an unfair market advantage because they embody the values you hold dear. Sidenote: I disagree that…

> you're imposing your personal values on consumers who demonstrate their willingness to exchange personal data for free services every day.

Are they demonstrating their willingness, or do they simply not understand that there is a choice to be made? Considering the trivial difference in mapping performance in most places, I doubt most people would be willing to give up their privacy in exchange for saving a few seconds on their drive to the mall.

> Without a seismic shift in public attitudes towards privacy,

If people were truly aware of how much data is collected on them, how many people would opt in for the marginal benefits you get in return?

Re: Apple delivers a new redesigned Maps for users in the United States

#296

Post by baggy_trough » Thu, Jan 30, 2020, 10:01 PM UTC

doodlebugging wrote: post #218

azinman2 wrote: post #10

Congrats to the teams who did this! It’s been a long time coming.. and a lot of people said along the way that Apple should just give up it was too far behind. Perseverance (and a lot of resources) can go a long way! It reminds me of some advice given to me by a heavily successful industrialist friend — never dismiss your competition, for the world is not static.

The teams are mostly 1099 contract workers through a third party with no benefits and no hope of advancement or future employment as full-time employee of Apple since their contract specifically expires in one year. They make around $20/hour usually right out of college in a town (Austin) with one of the fastest growing cost of living due to the influx of all the tech companies who got tired of the California scene a…

Apple gave them an option that was better than all others available to them. Otherwise they would be doing that other option instead. So thanks, Apple!

Re: Apple delivers a new redesigned Maps for users in the United States

#297

Post by ehsankia » Thu, Jan 30, 2020, 10:01 PM UTC

azinman2 wrote: post #10

Congrats to the teams who did this! It’s been a long time coming.. and a lot of people said along the way that Apple should just give up it was too far behind. Perseverance (and a lot of resources) can go a long way! It reminds me of some advice given to me by a heavily successful industrialist friend — never dismiss your competition, for the world is not static.

Honestly, the redesign aside, it's really impressive how quickly they are catching up with most Google Maps features. Given, I haven't tried these myself and can't attest to their quality, but in the article they list: Real-Time Transit info, Sharing ETA, Indoor Maps, etc. They also got street view, and more.

Of course, it's much easier to copy features than innovate, the latter takes years of UX research, while the former can simply just take all the lessons learned and implement the final iteration. That being said, it sounds like Apple has invested big time on their Maps team, doing so much is so little time is truly impressive.

Re: Apple delivers a new redesigned Maps for users in the United States

#298

Post by wwweston » Thu, Jan 30, 2020, 10:01 PM UTC

aresant wrote: post #44

In the midst of the world (rightly) turning on big tech's abuses, efforts like these make me optimistic about our industry on a whole and help me recover some of the enthusiasm that led me into tech in the first place. I love how this effort relies on & amplifies what were before relatively obscure specialties The mapping wars elevate cartographers, mapping specialists, GIS data nerds, mobile computing / compression…

> It's humbling and really cool to see [cartographers, mapping specialists, GIS data nerds, mobile computing / compression phds, GPS parsing engineers, ex-dod intertial navigation specialists, etc.] enter the "rockstar" stadium to deliver something that legitimately changes the way that billions of humans interact with the world

The thing is, they did this before. But the interaction just wasn't direct. All of those people were doing important work for government and business organizations wherever getting around and knowing where you and other things are mattered, and improving the quality of services.

Now we get first-hand experience with their work, which is fantastic. Map apps are probably the thing that most enticed me onto a smart phone and the thing I'd have a hardest time giving up.

I just hope that every time we remember the before and after for these amazing conveniences, we remember that all these disciplines and professionals were important beforehand, and that there are others that are woven quietly into public and private life. Because there's a lot of voices right now that seem interested in burning down institutions and not enough curiosity in what those institutions have done for us.

Re: Apple delivers a new redesigned Maps for users in the United States

#299

Post by jeromegv » Thu, Jan 30, 2020, 10:02 PM UTC

duderific wrote: post #281

I'm excited about the Share ETA feature. Every night after work, I get in the car, open Google maps, get the ETA and text my wife my expected arrival time. If this works out well it will be one less thing I have to remember to do.

You can also use Shortcuts to automate that process quite well, been using it already. There's a few examples here: https://www.reddit.com/r/shortcuts/

Re: Apple delivers a new redesigned Maps for users in the United States

#300

Post by joewrong » Thu, Jan 30, 2020, 10:04 PM UTC

the only thing stopping me from uninstalling google maps is setting the map view to north-up during turn by turn navigation. I can't handle the map turning while I am for some reason.