Live data from Hacker News

Apple delivers a new redesigned Maps for users in the United States

apple.com

251–260 of 476 posts

Re: Apple delivers a new redesigned Maps for users in the United States

#251
post #181
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much as I agree with your general sentiment, Apple Maps, like many of Apple's mobile apps, gets a boost from Apple's anti-competitive practices. It's utterly ridiculous that we can remove default apps from iOS, including Maps and Safari, but we can't set new default apps to replace them. If we ever get serious about increasing competition in the tech sector, an easy place to start is letting users set default brow…

What's worse for consumers in the end though? One profession missing in the parent comment are the researchers innovating on differential privacy. Apple has taken great pains to figure out ways to improve their maps without storing massive amounts of private user data, to the extent that they split routes in half, fuzz addresses, and analyze the start and end of trips independently. There's an argument that Google ha…

While I sympathize with your viewpoint, you're imposing your personal values on consumers who demonstrate their willingness to exchange personal data for free services every day. You and many HN users may balk at this, but most people are ok with trading privacy for real-time traffic predictions. Apple shouldn't receive an unfair market advantage because they embody the values you hold dear.

Sidenote: I disagree that Apple Maps' success puts pressure on Google to up their privacy game. On the contrary, Google Maps comparative advantage is their data trove, as there are many more users of Google Maps than Apple Maps, so they seem more likely to lean on that to succeed.

I wouldn't look to the market to improve privacy, since as I said above, the market clearly doesn't care about privacy much at all. Without a seismic shift in public attitudes towards privacy, it's up to the government or the companies themselves to adapt.

Re: Apple delivers a new redesigned Maps for users in the United States

#252

Shameless plug, but we just shipped our huge Gaia Topo update too. Gaia Topo focuses on the backcountry, and specifically downloading for offline use: https://blog.gaiagps.com/easy-to-read-tiny-to-download-the-a...

I've thought for a while that your Gaia Topo layer could be improved, especially because until now I don't think you had any hillshade at all for a topo map!

I spent some time checking out your map this morning, and it looks really nice at low zooms, but I'm still a little disappointed at high zooms. At zoom 13 the hillshading ends!

For example, at zoom 14, I still much prefer a map with a hillshade (my own work): https://www.gaiagps.com/map/?loc=14.0/-121.1500/48.1582&laye... https://nst.guide/#14/48.1582/-121.15

Re: Apple delivers a new redesigned Maps for users in the United States

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I seem to remember someone posting their results of testing Google Maps, Apple Maps, and Waze for ETA accuracy, and what you describe was also what they found: Apple Maps was the most accurate, Google Maps was optimistic, but accurate, Waze basically reported the best case scenario. Edit: found the original [0] I've long thought that Waze creates the illusion of saving massive amounts of time, when its benefits are m…

After using Waze for over a couple of years, I really started getting the impression that I was just a data pawn in a bunch of A/B tests -- like send this one down that route, send that one down the other way & see what happens.

Absolutely sure Google Maps A/B tests routes too.

Even when sitting next to each other in the same car, Google Maps suggests radically different routes to the same destination on my wife’s phone than it does on mine, often with a 15+ min difference in arrival time. It must be testing different routing algorithms as otherwise they should be the same.

Re: Apple delivers a new redesigned Maps for users in the United States

#254

Shameless plug, but we just shipped our huge Gaia Topo update too. Gaia Topo focuses on the backcountry, and specifically downloading for offline use: https://blog.gaiagps.com/easy-to-read-tiny-to-download-the-a...

Absolutely love Gaia! Almost 10 years of my outdoor life are in that app! With the current pricing and amount of users, is it a sustainable business?

Thanks, we'll be going strong for another 10 years :)

I think the business is very healthy. Headcount continues to grow, but not in a crazy way, and the great majority of the expenses are R&D. We're certainly default alive.

Re: Apple delivers a new redesigned Maps for users in the United States

#255
There's no way for them to beat a decade+ of effort (and billions of dollars) that Google has put into their maps unless they are prepared to really invest. And they are stingy AF when it comes to multibillion-dollar investments that aren't hardware. This is the reason why they suck at AI as well.

Re: Apple delivers a new redesigned Maps for users in the United States

#256

Shout out to all of Justin O’Beirne' amazing analysis on all things maps. https://www.justinobeirne.com/ -he's even got an updated post related to this press release.

direct link: https://www.justinobeirne.com/new-apple-maps-continental-uni...

It makes me sad that Apple followed Google with the idea of coloring maps green based on satellite photos of trees rather than actual parks. Why anyone in Silicon Valley thinks I give a shit where trees are is beyond me. I used to be able to pull up maps and instantly see any parks around me. Now they're practically invisible.

Re: Apple delivers a new redesigned Maps for users in the United States

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I seem to remember someone posting their results of testing Google Maps, Apple Maps, and Waze for ETA accuracy, and what you describe was also what they found: Apple Maps was the most accurate, Google Maps was optimistic, but accurate, Waze basically reported the best case scenario. Edit: found the original [0] I've long thought that Waze creates the illusion of saving massive amounts of time, when its benefits are m…

After using Waze for over a couple of years, I really started getting the impression that I was just a data pawn in a bunch of A/B tests -- like send this one down that route, send that one down the other way & see what happens.

Waze takes more risks, that's for sure. It's still the best one if you know the area you're driving and are willing to ignore the maps.

I still use Google Maps when I'm unfamiliar with the drive for the reasons you mention (ie, it needlessly took me down a busy grid-locked road once).

But otherwise nothing beats Waze for the additional features like construction and police reporting plus it does a good job of finding fast routes far more often than not.

Re: Apple delivers a new redesigned Maps for users in the United States

#258
post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I'm quite happy with Openstreetmap's directions for biking (I mostly use OSMand, but there are other apps/routers). They have elevation, private/public roads, road surface, bike lanes, etc, and routers can take it into account. Of course, that doesn't really take into account varying laws, but that might be reflected in the maps themselves (private/public places, bikes allowed/disallowed, etc). See also https:/…

Openstreermap drives me crazy. They use the designations “town” and “city” as a way of ranking places in terms of importance. Here in the UK that designation is almost arbitrary. There are several large towns with greater population and navigational importance than surrounding smaller cities. All the commercial map providers, including Apple Maps, grok that. Only opensteetmap seems still rigidly to the town < city th…

OSM does record population, and many sites that use OSM data parse that information. I think you're overstating the importance of the demo stylesheet on openstreetmap.org, which really isn't significant: OSM is all about recording factual map data and making it freely available.

Re: Apple delivers a new redesigned Maps for users in the United States

#259
post #92
post #44

In the midst of the world (rightly) turning on big tech's abuses, efforts like these make me optimistic about our industry on a whole and help me recover some of the enthusiasm that led me into tech in the first place. I love how this effort relies on & amplifies what were before relatively obscure specialties The mapping wars elevate cartographers, mapping specialists, GIS data nerds, mobile computing / compression…

As much as I agree with your general sentiment, Apple Maps, like many of Apple's mobile apps, gets a boost from Apple's anti-competitive practices. It's utterly ridiculous that we can remove default apps from iOS, including Maps and Safari, but we can't set new default apps to replace them. If we ever get serious about increasing competition in the tech sector, an easy place to start is letting users set default brow…

You can remove them? Android doesn't allow me to remove them wasting my space.

Not setting a default is bad too. Wish I could get there.

Re: Apple delivers a new redesigned Maps for users in the United States

#260
post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's worse for consumers in the end though? One profession missing in the parent comment are the researchers innovating on differential privacy. Apple has taken great pains to figure out ways to improve their maps without storing massive amounts of private user data, to the extent that they split routes in half, fuzz addresses, and analyze the start and end of trips independently. There's an argument that Google ha…

While I sympathize with your viewpoint, you're imposing your personal values on consumers who demonstrate their willingness to exchange personal data for free services every day. You and many HN users may balk at this, but most people are ok with trading privacy for real-time traffic predictions. Apple shouldn't receive an unfair market advantage because they embody the values you hold dear. Sidenote: I disagree that…

By this same logic, consumers are willing to exchange their inability to set a default Maps app in exchange for the iPhone bundle, at the price Apple provides (discounted because of the services revenue they can extract.)
Post reply on HN