How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost? • Hacker News Board

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#301

Post by Maultasche » Tue, Jan 28, 2020, 10:10 PM UTC

rahimnathwani wrote: post #85

slowhand09 wrote: post #57

I think of this as I drive 30ish miles each way to work. 5 miles of surface roads, 19 miles of interstate (2 lanes each way), and 6 miles of surface (2 lanes each way). One cause for increased construction is the need for more capacity. My frequent lament is poor driving habits. We have regular instances of sub-optimal speeds in both lanes. A 65 mph limit and vehicles driving 55mph in both lanes, frequently with 1/4…

I was surprised to read this in the California DMV driver handbook: "If you can choose among three lanes, pick the middle lane for the smoothest driving." When I learned to drive (in the UK), the official guidance was to stay in the left-most lane except when overtaking. And then, after overtaking, to immediately return to the left lane.

That is indeed the rule in European countries I've driven in and (modified for which side of the road is being driven on) some US states (like Oregon) have similar rules.

California, on the other hand, allows people to drive in whatever lane they feel like for however long they feel like as long as they maintain sufficient speed. The slower traffic is supposed to stay to the right and the faster traffic is supposed to stay to the left. The police can intervene if they feel that someone is driving too slow in the wrong lane, but I've never seen that happen.

There are no rules in California to prevent overtaking on the right, so you can choose which lane you want to move into to overtake someone.

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#302

Post by Polylactic_acid » Tue, Jan 28, 2020, 10:11 PM UTC

8draco8 wrote: post #250

Polylactic_acid wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>10 miles to the nearest trails when you could just ride to them. Because they are usually up in the hills so its a fairly large effort to get there and by the time you are there you have no energy left to do the trails unless there is a ski lift to get you to the top.

But if you are riding bike seriously 10 miles is nothing. It's literally 30-40 minutes ride. I am runner not biker and on many occasions 10 miles for me is just a morning run before work.

The mtb park is 30km away from the city and its uphill the whole way. Sure its not impossible to do 60km road and then 10km mtb riding but it excludes all but the fittest cyclists.

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#303

Post by cameldrv » Wed, Jan 29, 2020, 12:49 AM UTC

joethebob wrote: post #300

cameldrv wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes that's the gross weight, i.e. carrying its maximum rated load. Personal vehicles are very rarely loaded up to their maximum weight, and mostly are driven relatively empty. Even driven at gross weight, it's doing 5% of the damage per axle of loaded semi. The semi also has 4-5 axles, so it's more like 2% of the damage of the semi. Mind you, we're talking here about the most damaging personal vehicle loaded to its m…

For the most part I agree. The other issue is psi load produced by different tread patterns. Going from some minimal water channels to a mud terrain cleated style will reduce surface area a good bit. If you have experience with rural areas you don't need a calculator to observe the highest direct damage is usually from agricultural tractors. Deformation from a single pass can be observed (and often felt) with the nak…

Well, after all, the whole point of these tires is to dig into the "road" to get better traction than is possible with normal friction, so it's not too surprising that they dig in to a lesser extent on hard surfaced roads.

That said, this type of tire is a very tiny fraction of the total miles driven on public highways, and so if you're looking for someone to tax based on the costs they create, it's all heavy trucks.

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#304

Post by asdff » Wed, Jan 29, 2020, 4:34 AM UTC

beerandt wrote: post #252

wwweston wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The benefits of zipper merge don't materialize fully unless merging lanes match speed approaching the merge point. The parent is likely talking about situations like those presented where a relatively less dense (and ending) lane is merging into a fully-loaded thru-lane, and the traffic in the relatively less dense lane, rather than matching speed and finding the tooth-gap correspondence that's implied in the name zi…

At the risk of sounding cold hearted: I get that it doesn't seem fair, but logically, it's the right call to drive to the end of the lane. 1) It keeps the rules simple. If we should merge at some arbitrary point before the lane is up, it will always be arbitrary, and different drivers will have different opinions. 2) By getting to the end and slowing down, the driver now has matched the speed of traffic. It's a self…

On paper, maybe the zipper is excellent. In practice, with prideful LA drivers, its a shit show. I know the maneuver the previous commenter described, it only leads to pain.

- everyone effectively stopped in the exit lane has to stop for even longer

- everyone in the thru traffic lanes has to deal with this person merging all the way from the left to the right with no blinker, then coming to a stop in the right most thru lane desperately trying to force themselves into the exit lane, usually driving over the gut in the process

- the end result is the entire freeway becomes even more backed up because this one person couldn't think more than 1 exit ahead, or worse, they convinced themselves that risking a brutal death like this is worth the 20 seconds it saved them

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#305

Post by erulabs » Wed, Jan 29, 2020, 6:03 AM UTC

romwell wrote: post #220

erulabs wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh man particularly from the 110 to the 5 south - that one lane change - there is _always_ one person go tries to skip the line and merge at the very end, only to get stuck, and cause a massive hangup. That line of cars is ~30 long, so 1 in 10 is perfectly high enough for it to be broken all the time.

>there is _always_ one person go tries to skip the line and merge at the very end, Ahem... he's the one that actually knows what a zipper merge is, and you are the one who needs to learn a thing today. There is no line in the zipper merge. You are supposed to merge at the very end to keep the traffic flowing, like a zipper would. Read up, and don't be that guy: https://auto.howstuffworks.com/traffic-lane-zipper-merge…

Sorry, to be clear, if you don't know that road, the person is breaking the law and driving over a very very large shoulder. They cross into a slashed white zone. You're absolutely right otherwise, but in this case, it's one very wide lane for some reason, and so people try to shoot around each other, causing chaos. If it was two lanes it would be fine, but it's a weird overpass / junction madness. I didn't mean "that one weird lane change", I meant "that weird one-lane change", heh.

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#306

Post by sershe » Wed, Jan 29, 2020, 9:09 AM UTC

habosa wrote: post #178

slowhand09 wrote: post #57

I think of this as I drive 30ish miles each way to work. 5 miles of surface roads, 19 miles of interstate (2 lanes each way), and 6 miles of surface (2 lanes each way). One cause for increased construction is the need for more capacity. My frequent lament is poor driving habits. We have regular instances of sub-optimal speeds in both lanes. A 65 mph limit and vehicles driving 55mph in both lanes, frequently with 1/4…

I recently drove around Spain for 2 weeks. My first significant international driving experience. I was shocked at how seriously they took the rule of only passing on the left. Every single car in the right line was driving slower than every single car in the left. It made driving so much better. The behavior of every car was basically predictable. I've never seen anyone pay much attention to their lane here.

I've also noticed (around Costa Blanca) how seriously they take tailgating (I mean it as a positive thing). As soon as there was a slow car in the left lane there was another literally 2 meters behind it... I tend to tailgate left lane hogs but I wouldn't ever go so close for safety reasons. In 0-2 minutes, the slow car is merging right. I wonder if those two are related.

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#307

Post by sershe » Wed, Jan 29, 2020, 9:26 AM UTC

ldoughty wrote: post #161

beerandt wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To get people to respect the passing lane, I propose: Left-most lane on controlled access highways should be rear car, by default, has the right-of-way.

If I'm passing at 5 over the limit, I'm still passing. I waited my turn. Not my fault I don't want to go 20+ over. I'll move back when the passed car is in my rear view. Oh, you really to ride my rear, and pay me on the right? Will Joe we have a problem because I'm happy merged into the right line and you're on my as, and now you're 3 feet from both me and the car were passing. That's what I got from this comment...…

There should be a very simple rule - if there's a car behind you in the left lane, no car ahead of you, and this situation persists for a bit, merge right. Make the /right/ choice - the pedal, or the lane ;)

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#308

Post by sershe » Wed, Jan 29, 2020, 9:32 AM UTC

Polylactic_acid wrote: post #20

I'm planning to live a car free life soon. I'll be moving in to the city so almost everything is within walking distance and just about everything is accessable via public transport. The only thing I haven't been able work out is how I will continue to go mtn biking since bikes aren't allowed on the bus. But I just can't justify the massive expense of owning a car and a car park for one activity.

I feel you, I'd really love to get rid of the car but it would be impossible to go climbing/hiking (begging for carpools gets old fast). Even in a car-centric place like the US (Seattle) it's possible to live in a house and still accomplish things cheaper and more conveniently via walking/bus/bike/Uber/Zipcar/rentals, except for the mountain trips, because it's so hard to get a car for 2-3 days at a convenient time and/or on a short notice.

It's a chicken and egg problem... if most people didn't own cars there would be much more reasonable and convenient ways to rent a car. But given that most people do anyway because even groceries without a car are a chore in a poorly design city, the market for the good rentals is not there.

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#309

Post by james_s_tayler » Wed, Jan 29, 2020, 1:13 PM UTC

wastedhours wrote: post #253

bartread wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what it's like in Spain but, in France, if you hog the outside lane you will get flashed and beeped at. French drivers do not tolerate lane hogs at all and generally manifest excellent lane discipline: I wish the UK were more like that.

I've started driving again after a couple of years off, and it still astounds me that people lane hog the middle lane. I don't know if it's laziness, ego, or fear of motorways but it should be taught as a rule. I usually make it a point to overtake and then, if possible, go straight back across to the left lane. Highly doubt the hogger is paying any attention, but I feel more content feeling like I've taught somethin…

I drive when and where I feel comfortable. Usually at or slightly below the speed limit. I'm mostly optimizing for making the minimum number of lane changes once I get on the motorway. Preferably that means as soon as I get on the motorway switching to whatever lane will take me directly to the exit. A lot of people do what you do. Doesn't bother me a bit. My logic is no one is really actually getting anywhere any faster anyway. They're just increasing risk for barely any benefit. Changing lanes seems to me like the most likely time to have an accident, so the people who insist that driving at the speed limit isn't fast enough and that they must change a lane to go around me and then change back again taking a small risk twice for the privilege are just impatient.

As the old saying goes "everyone who drives slower than you is an idiot, everyone who drives faster than you is crazy".

Fun fact: I also take routes that minimize the number of times I have to turn into oncoming traffic and/or judge gaps where the landscape gives poor visibility of the traffic, so long as the detour is no more than a few minutes.

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#310

Post by beatgammit » Wed, Jan 29, 2020, 2:12 PM UTC

alamortsubite wrote: post #112

Polylactic_acid wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The proper solution would be to tax trucks exactly the amount of damage they cause. This would cause the cost of imported goods to go up and the cost of local goods to go down. In the short term you would see the extra cost and lower taxes cancel each other out and in the long term, local goods become more common than imported.

This is the right idea, but let's not stop there. Why not also tax privately registered vehicles to some degree by their mass? I also like the idea of making fines for moving violations somewhat proportional to vehicle mass. The danger posed to others by a 150 lb moped pales in comparison to that of a 4500 lb pickup truck. At least in the U.S., a ticket for speeding 50% over the limit through a residential neighborho…

In my state, we're implementing a cost per mile for vehicle registration purposes. I think the idea is tied to air quality concerns, but a similar model would work for road maintenance.

I just wonder what would happen if we charged trucks based on weight.