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Sci-Hub users cost ASA journals thousands of downloads

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Re: Sci-Hub users cost ASA journals thousands of downloads

#11

Post by zozbot234 »

piracyadvocate wrote: post #8
logicallee wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't use sci-hub, but the framing "Sci-Hub users cost ASA journals thousands of downloads" presumes something: it presumes that without sci-hub, ASA journals would have thousands of more downloads. This could very well be false: without sci-hub, people might instead use arxiv and the like; perhaps sci-hub brings journals thousands of downloads they would not have if sci-hub didn't exist. As I don't use it I can't…

>This could very well be false: without sci-hub, people might instead use arxiv and the like; perhaps sci-hub brings journals thousands of downloads they would not have if sci-hub didn't exist. There was that study in EU that said piracy actually helped the game industry. There is also what the author was commenting, sci-hub is easier to use than the legal alternative. We go tour researchers stuck in bureaucracies, t…

HN is getting novelty usernames now? That was a bit, um, unsettling.

Re: Sci-Hub users cost ASA journals thousands of downloads

#12

Post by piracyadvocate »

zozbot234 wrote: post #11
piracyadvocate wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This could very well be false: without sci-hub, people might instead use arxiv and the like; perhaps sci-hub brings journals thousands of downloads they would not have if sci-hub didn't exist. There was that study in EU that said piracy actually helped the game industry. There is also what the author was commenting, sci-hub is easier to use than the legal alternative. We go tour researchers stuck in bureaucracies, t…

HN is getting novelty usernames now? That was a bit, um, unsettling.

Well, I didn't want to associate pro-piracy views with my main account. That account should be for tech discussion only, without politics. Identity on the internet is forever.

Re: Sci-Hub users cost ASA journals thousands of downloads

#13

Post by piracyadvocate »

tudorw wrote: post #7
logicallee wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't use sci-hub, but the framing "Sci-Hub users cost ASA journals thousands of downloads" presumes something: it presumes that without sci-hub, ASA journals would have thousands of more downloads. This could very well be false: without sci-hub, people might instead use arxiv and the like; perhaps sci-hub brings journals thousands of downloads they would not have if sci-hub didn't exist. As I don't use it I can't…

We went through this with MP3, record industry claimed every download was costing them money, that is was the end of the world as we know it, they would wither and die without copyright protection, while at the same time, more people were listening to more music, and look where we are now...

Didn't iTunes store used to be DRM free? (I never actually had any apple device so I'm not sure)

Re: Sci-Hub users cost ASA journals thousands of downloads

#15

Post by ailideex »

xiphias2 wrote: post #2

,,I do not, however, contribute anything to the system; I free-ride off their criminality'' The writer has to constatly remind me that running the proxy is a crime, but using it - even if she knows that it's not the legitimate way to get the information- is not. This may be true, still I don't like the tone, as clearly sci-hub is providing the huge value to people, not her. I wouldn't be surprised if some life saving…

To be frank when people using "..., and that’s OK" they pretty much lost me. It implies the person thinks their value judgement on the matter is somehow universal - which it just is not.

I use sci-hub - others can decide for themselves to use it - but I'm not going to say others should think it is okay or not okay if I use it - the value judgements of most other people regarding my actions is not something that I care about a lot.

Re: Sci-Hub users cost ASA journals thousands of downloads

#17

Post by GlitchMr »

Those aren't lost sales. Nobody sane would pay $40 or so for a 20 pages paper. Even if Scihub didn't exist. Publishers know nobody pays that. There are other options free for academic, such as subscriptions universities pay for or inter-library loans. Non-academic clients may try asking somebody who has a subscription access for a given paper (I know I did provide paper PDFs a few times when asked).

Publishers don't prey on individual users, they prey on universities. They try to get them to pay for journal access. Non-academic clients? Not profitable enough for us, go away. Scihub threatens this business model, because universities may decide to stop paying that money because Scihub exists. It's much more convenient than bothering a random person to provide you a paper or inter-library loan which makes this an actual risk to them.

Re: Sci-Hub users cost ASA journals thousands of downloads

#18

Post by catalogia »

piracyadvocate wrote: post #8
logicallee wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't use sci-hub, but the framing "Sci-Hub users cost ASA journals thousands of downloads" presumes something: it presumes that without sci-hub, ASA journals would have thousands of more downloads. This could very well be false: without sci-hub, people might instead use arxiv and the like; perhaps sci-hub brings journals thousands of downloads they would not have if sci-hub didn't exist. As I don't use it I can't…

>This could very well be false: without sci-hub, people might instead use arxiv and the like; perhaps sci-hub brings journals thousands of downloads they would not have if sci-hub didn't exist. There was that study in EU that said piracy actually helped the game industry. There is also what the author was commenting, sci-hub is easier to use than the legal alternative. We go tour researchers stuck in bureaucracies, t…

It's hard to imagine how a legal service could be better than Sci-hub. You could make it as good as sci-hub, but how could you make it easier than "paste DOI -> PDF is downloaded"?

Steam beats video game piracy because video game piracy requires shit like having a torrent client or having a friend who has a copy already. Video game piracy was never as easy as sci-hub.

Re: Sci-Hub users cost ASA journals thousands of downloads

#19

Post by jboynyc »

For context, the author is an American sociology professor who serves on the American Sociological Association's committee on publications.

He recently came out in opposition to the ASA's official stance rejecting a proposed federal mandate to make all publicly funded research available open access. The ASA joined other scholarly associations in opposition such a mandate.

The author recently discussed his stance on The Annex podcast: http://sociocast.org/podcast/the-paywall-and-the-asa/

Re: Sci-Hub users cost ASA journals thousands of downloads

#20

Post by edraferi »

catalogia wrote: post #18
piracyadvocate wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This could very well be false: without sci-hub, people might instead use arxiv and the like; perhaps sci-hub brings journals thousands of downloads they would not have if sci-hub didn't exist. There was that study in EU that said piracy actually helped the game industry. There is also what the author was commenting, sci-hub is easier to use than the legal alternative. We go tour researchers stuck in bureaucracies, t…

It's hard to imagine how a legal service could be better than Sci-hub. You could make it as good as sci-hub, but how could you make it easier than "paste DOI -> PDF is downloaded" ? Steam beats video game piracy because video game piracy requires shit like having a torrent client or having a friend who has a copy already. Video game piracy was never as easy as sci-hub.

Just make it _as good_. Add legitimacy at the same level of convenience and you win.
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