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How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

strongtowns.org

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Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#141

Post by wahern »

dmurray wrote: post #120
rahimnathwani wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was surprised to read this in the California DMV driver handbook: "If you can choose among three lanes, pick the middle lane for the smoothest driving." When I learned to drive (in the UK), the official guidance was to stay in the left-most lane except when overtaking. And then, after overtaking, to immediately return to the left lane.

I've noticed while driving in the US that American highway exits seem to be designed differently than those in the UK. The rightmost lane of three-lane highways will often become the exit lane, so if you stick to the rightmost lane you'll frequently need to switch lanes to your left to stay on the road. In the UK, in contrast, the exit lane is usually the new lane, and you have to switch lanes to get into it. So inst…

That depends on the region and age of the road. In more rural areas where the freeways are newer things are much more consistent and usually just as you'd expect. In older areas like New York or California where many of the freeways predate the Federal Interstate system, and where lane expansions, lane extensions, and exits have grown far more organically, there are inconsistent designs (although often consistent within the time period) and even bizarre, one-off stuff.

California didn't even adhere to Federal Interstate guidelines for exit numbering until relatively recently (sometime in the early to mid 2000s, IIRC), decades after most other states. California's scheme predated the Federal Interstate system and they weren't keen on changing it.

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#142

Post by lmm »

nightski wrote: post #61
glangdale wrote: post #22

This is interesting information, but from the perspective of a high-value urban area, even these fairly eye-watering numbers are a understatement. The capital represented both as infrastructure and forgone real estate usage (i.e. yes, we need roads, but building more roads than we need diverts incredibly valuable real estate from other purposes) is huge. I'm always amused here in Australia when governments like to ma…

Sure it's breaking even if you consider the utility of the roads to be equal to the taxed value of petrol. But it's likely far greater than that.

The point is that the value created and not captured by the government (at a cost of billions of dollars of what could otherwise be working capital, so effectively being paid for by taxpayers) is effectively a subsidy, and this particular subsidy may not be fairly distributed.

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#143

Post by stefan_ »

geddy wrote: post #75
dougweltman wrote: post #7

This does not address a larger question: how much does a mile of road cost to keep ? This is the installed base question. Consider the amount of road that has been built out in the US relative to the populations that road is serving. Maintenance and expansion is paid out mainly from state and local taxes. That's an enormous civilizational overhead the US contends with, not to mention the economic cost of a large port…

Lots of shade thrown towards people living in suburbia on here. Maybe not everyone wants to live in a (rented) closet sized apartment in a major city, complete with all the noise pollution, actual pollution, crime rates, and a lingering piss-smell 24/7, and all for the low price of _more than owning a house_?

I don't think anyone cares if you prefer to live rural, the problem is suburbanites having their yard, big house and pool, then every workday commuting into the city where they expect urban dwellers to subsidize the parking spot and eat all the death, destruction and pollution their hunks of metal bring along.

It's like I'm happy to have the walkable grocery store and 24/7 piss smell, but when feeling adventurous driving out to the suburbs to set up camp in your garden.

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#144

Post by rahimnathwani »

jibe wrote: post #139
rahimnathwani wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was surprised to read this in the California DMV driver handbook: "If you can choose among three lanes, pick the middle lane for the smoothest driving." When I learned to drive (in the UK), the official guidance was to stay in the left-most lane except when overtaking. And then, after overtaking, to immediately return to the left lane.

Wait a sec, you drive on the opposite side of the road in the UK, so the advice to stay in the left lane except for overtaking is the equivalent of the advice here to stay to the right, or out of the left lane except when passing.

"is the equivalent of the advice here to stay to the right"

Yeah, but the advice in the California DMV handbook is to stay in the middle, not the right.

The difference is that, in the UK, the middle lane is explicitly only for overtaking. If you're going the same speed as the cars in the left lane, you're not overtaking, so you shouldn't be in the middle lane. California's guidance is directly contrary to this.

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#145

Post by peteey »

animalgonzales wrote: post #78
dougweltman wrote: post #7

This does not address a larger question: how much does a mile of road cost to keep ? This is the installed base question. Consider the amount of road that has been built out in the US relative to the populations that road is serving. Maintenance and expansion is paid out mainly from state and local taxes. That's an enormous civilizational overhead the US contends with, not to mention the economic cost of a large port…

also versus the cost of a mile of rail

The cost should be measured in part by death. Car accidents are the leading cause of death of Americans under the age of 25: https://www.cdc.gov/injury/images/lc-charts/leading_causes_o...

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#146

Post by beerandt »

slowhand09 wrote: post #57

I think of this as I drive 30ish miles each way to work. 5 miles of surface roads, 19 miles of interstate (2 lanes each way), and 6 miles of surface (2 lanes each way). One cause for increased construction is the need for more capacity. My frequent lament is poor driving habits. We have regular instances of sub-optimal speeds in both lanes. A 65 mph limit and vehicles driving 55mph in both lanes, frequently with 1/4…

To get people to respect the passing lane, I propose:

Left-most lane on controlled access highways should be rear car, by default, has the right-of-way.

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#147

Post by greenonions »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #87

Is there a Primer / tldr for Strong Towns? I kind of get the basic idea (maintaining town infrastructure sometimes exceeds revenue) but I was looking for "start here" but don't seem to be able to find it

https://www.strongtowns.org/mission

This is a pretty good wrap up of what the Strong Towns thing is about.

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#148

Post by pg_is_a_butt »

slowhand09 wrote: post #57

I think of this as I drive 30ish miles each way to work. 5 miles of surface roads, 19 miles of interstate (2 lanes each way), and 6 miles of surface (2 lanes each way). One cause for increased construction is the need for more capacity. My frequent lament is poor driving habits. We have regular instances of sub-optimal speeds in both lanes. A 65 mph limit and vehicles driving 55mph in both lanes, frequently with 1/4…

Driver education doesn't matter when it stops at 16 years old. I've been in cars with these bad drivers doing less than the speed limit in the left lane... I told them they should get over... they said they prefer to drive "in the fast lane"... like they'll get there faster. They stayed in the left lane until the exit, and then exit across 2 lanes. I don't see how you can help these people.

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#149

Post by opportune »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #85
slowhand09 wrote: post #57

I think of this as I drive 30ish miles each way to work. 5 miles of surface roads, 19 miles of interstate (2 lanes each way), and 6 miles of surface (2 lanes each way). One cause for increased construction is the need for more capacity. My frequent lament is poor driving habits. We have regular instances of sub-optimal speeds in both lanes. A 65 mph limit and vehicles driving 55mph in both lanes, frequently with 1/4…

I was surprised to read this in the California DMV driver handbook: "If you can choose among three lanes, pick the middle lane for the smoothest driving." When I learned to drive (in the UK), the official guidance was to stay in the left-most lane except when overtaking. And then, after overtaking, to immediately return to the left lane.

I stay in the middle lanes most of the time on the 101 because they are constantly adding/removing lanes or onramps with quickly disappearing lanes. Easier to stay in the middle than constantly deal with California drivers merging into your lane. I have had a lot of close calls where people behaved very irrationally merging onto the highway. Best to avoid it

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#150

Post by MuffinFlavored »

beerandt wrote: post #146
slowhand09 wrote: post #57

I think of this as I drive 30ish miles each way to work. 5 miles of surface roads, 19 miles of interstate (2 lanes each way), and 6 miles of surface (2 lanes each way). One cause for increased construction is the need for more capacity. My frequent lament is poor driving habits. We have regular instances of sub-optimal speeds in both lanes. A 65 mph limit and vehicles driving 55mph in both lanes, frequently with 1/4…

To get people to respect the passing lane, I propose: Left-most lane on controlled access highways should be rear car, by default, has the right-of-way.

In my experience, this really only encourages "king of the road, get out of my way" behavior.

Source: South Floridian driver who does felonious speeds in the left lane (typically in a speeding convoy, with everybody else doing the same speeds, if not higher)

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