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DebConf20: offer to speak in Palestine censored

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Re: DebConf20: offer to speak in Palestine censored

#31

Post by pytester »

ealexhudson wrote: post #28
slim wrote: post #14

IMHO the carefulness that was put in writing that message make it impossible to interpret it as antisemitic or bad faith. Actually interpreting it as antisemitic is bad faith.

I suspect the care put into the message was more to ensure that this specific example would look reasonable on its own. When set in the context of the site it's posted on, and the other sites associated with the author (e.g. fsfesicherheit's other postings to HN), it looks more like a pattern of quite targeted harassment. I personally have no skin in this game, but if the message was censored from the list I would gi…

Wirt said "I did not wanted to say its antisemetic, I wanted to say that we don't want to see either antisemetic _or_ antiisrelism" (sic)

Deleting messages that express specifically anti-semitic views is anti-racist.

Deleting messages that express specifically anti-state views, where that state imposes racial apartheid, is explicitly pro-racist.

This was the latter.

Re: DebConf20: offer to speak in Palestine censored

#33

Post by s_dev »

ealexhudson wrote: post #28
slim wrote: post #14

IMHO the carefulness that was put in writing that message make it impossible to interpret it as antisemitic or bad faith. Actually interpreting it as antisemitic is bad faith.

I suspect the care put into the message was more to ensure that this specific example would look reasonable on its own. When set in the context of the site it's posted on, and the other sites associated with the author (e.g. fsfesicherheit's other postings to HN), it looks more like a pattern of quite targeted harassment. I personally have no skin in this game, but if the message was censored from the list I would gi…

>(e.g. fsfesicherheit's other postings to HN)

A single other submission (an article on the Berlin Wall) and two comments relating to said article consitutes a HN posting history?

I'm not seeing anti-semitism here but I am seeing censorship.

Re: DebConf20: offer to speak in Palestine censored

#34

Post by slim »

woodpanel wrote: post #22

Many people remain uncomfortable about how DebConf organizers are handling the challenges presented in the middle east. As someone, who has zero experience with DebConf whatsoever, I have to say, I can see how such an intro could be interpreted as anti-semitic. What "challenges" would have an Israli conference have to handle? How and why. If it's just because it is Israeli then do all Israeli conferences need to "han…

For example : the territory is zoned, there are military checkpoints and depending on your ethnicity, you are not free to go where you want. So if you are Muslim for instance you could be banned from attending the conference.

Re: DebConf20: offer to speak in Palestine censored

#35

Post by diegoperini »

Udik wrote: post #10
diegoperini wrote: post #2

> Can you see any way in which this message could be considered anti-semitic? I accept the message can be disturbing to some (not to me) but I believe it is not anti-semitic.

> the message can be disturbing to some How would it be disturbing?

For any kind of discussion where there are multiple conflicting ideas, it is likely that an argument based even at least partially on opinion can be disturbing to one or some of the parties.

Re: DebConf20: offer to speak in Palestine censored

#38

Post by Udik »

diegoperini wrote: post #35
Udik wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the message can be disturbing to some How would it be disturbing?

For any kind of discussion where there are multiple conflicting ideas, it is likely that an argument based even at least partially on opinion can be disturbing to one or some of the parties.

There is no opinion here. Just someone who advances a pretty harmless proposal.

Re: DebConf20: offer to speak in Palestine censored

#39

Post by diegoperini »

Udik wrote: post #38
diegoperini wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For any kind of discussion where there are multiple conflicting ideas, it is likely that an argument based even at least partially on opinion can be disturbing to one or some of the parties.

There is no opinion here. Just someone who advances a pretty harmless proposal.

There are more facts than opinions there and thus, I totally support what the author is proposing! But this doesn't mean the whole piece is written in a neutral tone.

Here is the paragraph which includes the author's opinion, initiated with a seemingly rhetorical question:

> Is Wirt really fighting anti-semitism, or could the DebConf20 organizers simply be afraid of any discussion that may deter wealthy Israeli sponsors? This doesn't suggest that Israelis have actually sought such influence, it is more of an indication of how easily some volunteers with official roles in Debian are bamboozled when anyone, whether it is an Israeli company or a Silicon Valley company, shows up with a fistful of cash.

Re: DebConf20: offer to speak in Palestine censored

#40

Post by DSingularity »

zchrykng wrote: post #16
techntoke wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is in order for us to do this, we have to do that? What about supporting Palestine bothers you so much?

Maybe the fact that the people there don't do anything about the groups that live among them who intentionally target Israeli civilians like they were legitimate targets? I wish nothing but the best on the Palestinian people and a quick death on all the terrorists who use their own people as human shields.

Do you really believe what you are saying? You are mirroring the dehumanizing propaganda that the Israeli occupation regularly pushes in efforts to paint Palestinians as animals who would murder their own children to advance their agenda. The reality is that the Israeli military kill Palestinian children with precision weapons [1] and even with sniper rifles [2,3,4]. But you can just keep believing what you want to believe (or pushing what you are paid to push --- who knows these days).

[1] https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/middle-east-unrest/palesti...

[2] https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/02/28/israeli-snipers-...

[3] https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/maureen-clare-murphy/is...

[4] https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20191030-israel-sniper-who...

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