DebConf20: offer to speak in Palestine censored • Hacker News Board

Re: DebConf20: offer to speak in Palestine censored

#11

Post by fortran77 » Mon, Jan 27, 2020, 5:07 PM UTC

pytester wrote: post #5

fortran77 wrote: post #3

He removed a bad-faith message that needlessly brought up political issues. Good for him. One of the reasons I avoid many of these communities is the hateful, bad-faith political posturing. (One of my 4 grandparents was born in Gaza City, and expelled in 1929 [1], so I believe I have a right to an opinion on this.) You wonder if there would have been a problem if he had said simply, free of political prodding, "I pla…

Making the decision to host a conference in Israel in the first place is a form of political posturing, as is message censorship. If they truly wanted to be apolitical (and it appears that Alexander Wirt very much does not) they could have held it somewhere more neutral (e.g. Turkey).

I'm sure you avoid going to conferences in the UK because they occupy a piece of Ireland, don't you?

Re: DebConf20: offer to speak in Palestine censored

#12

Post by pytester » Mon, Jan 27, 2020, 5:07 PM UTC

tompccs wrote: post #8

pytester wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making the decision to host a conference in Israel in the first place is a form of political posturing, as is message censorship. If they truly wanted to be apolitical (and it appears that Alexander Wirt very much does not) they could have held it somewhere more neutral (e.g. Turkey).

Are you serious? There was an article on HN just yesterday about how Turkey censored Wikipedia for two years. I think a lot of Israeli engineers would just like to be able to host conferences without it turning into a geopolitical debate.

>Are you serious? There was an article on HN just yesterday about how Turkey censored Wikipedia for two years.

And yet it would maximize those who would be able to attend. Both Israelis and Arabs can fly to Turkey pretty easily.

>I think a lot of Israeli engineers would just like to be able to host conferences without it turning into a geopolitical debate

I'm sure a lot of North Korean and Venezuelan engineers would love that too, but until the Israeli government ends racial apartheid the chances of it not turning into a geopolitical debate are zero.

Re: DebConf20: offer to speak in Palestine censored

#13

Post by techntoke » Mon, Jan 27, 2020, 5:07 PM UTC

tompccs wrote: post #9

Headline is misleading. He didn't 'offer to speak', he proposed splitting the conference 50:50 between Israel and Palestine. Fine, if that's something you think would benefit the community, but then should we also be splitting conferences in China between Beijing and Tibet? Russia and East Ukraine? India and Kashmir? Either turn every academic conference into a geopolitical soapbox or just host it where the engineers…

Why is in order for us to do this, we have to do that? What about supporting Palestine bothers you so much?

Re: DebConf20: offer to speak in Palestine censored

#14

Post by slim » Mon, Jan 27, 2020, 5:08 PM UTC

IMHO the carefulness that was put in writing that message make it impossible to interpret it as antisemitic or bad faith. Actually interpreting it as antisemitic is bad faith.

Re: DebConf20: offer to speak in Palestine censored

#15

Post by bilekas » Mon, Jan 27, 2020, 5:09 PM UTC

tompccs wrote: post #9

Headline is misleading. He didn't 'offer to speak', he proposed splitting the conference 50:50 between Israel and Palestine. Fine, if that's something you think would benefit the community, but then should we also be splitting conferences in China between Beijing and Tibet? Russia and East Ukraine? India and Kashmir? Either turn every academic conference into a geopolitical soapbox or just host it where the engineers…

Have you read the letter ?

> I'd personally volunteer to give the same talk twice for both audiences.

And you've drawn a lot of false equivelancies, leaving aside that its completely unrelated to this topic.

The article is about the interpretation of Anti-semetism.. Not litterally where the conference should be held.

But seems you haven't read it.

Re: DebConf20: offer to speak in Palestine censored

#16

Post by zchrykng » Mon, Jan 27, 2020, 5:11 PM UTC

techntoke wrote: post #13

tompccs wrote: post #9

Headline is misleading. He didn't 'offer to speak', he proposed splitting the conference 50:50 between Israel and Palestine. Fine, if that's something you think would benefit the community, but then should we also be splitting conferences in China between Beijing and Tibet? Russia and East Ukraine? India and Kashmir? Either turn every academic conference into a geopolitical soapbox or just host it where the engineers…

Why is in order for us to do this, we have to do that? What about supporting Palestine bothers you so much?

Maybe the fact that the people there don't do anything about the groups that live among them who intentionally target Israeli civilians like they were legitimate targets?

I wish nothing but the best on the Palestinian people and a quick death on all the terrorists who use their own people as human shields.

Re: DebConf20: offer to speak in Palestine censored

#17

Post by Udik » Mon, Jan 27, 2020, 5:12 PM UTC

tompccs wrote: post #8

pytester wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making the decision to host a conference in Israel in the first place is a form of political posturing, as is message censorship. If they truly wanted to be apolitical (and it appears that Alexander Wirt very much does not) they could have held it somewhere more neutral (e.g. Turkey).

Are you serious? There was an article on HN just yesterday about how Turkey censored Wikipedia for two years. I think a lot of Israeli engineers would just like to be able to host conferences without it turning into a geopolitical debate.

I can understand it, but how can you expect to keep living normally as if nothing was happening, when your army's snipers are shooting live bullets on protesters and 10% of your population lives on illegally occupied territories?

This is not "a geopolitical debate", this is a fundamental human rights issue.

Re: DebConf20: offer to speak in Palestine censored

#18

Post by tompccs » Mon, Jan 27, 2020, 5:12 PM UTC

techntoke wrote: post #13

tompccs wrote: post #9

Headline is misleading. He didn't 'offer to speak', he proposed splitting the conference 50:50 between Israel and Palestine. Fine, if that's something you think would benefit the community, but then should we also be splitting conferences in China between Beijing and Tibet? Russia and East Ukraine? India and Kashmir? Either turn every academic conference into a geopolitical soapbox or just host it where the engineers…

Why is in order for us to do this, we have to do that? What about supporting Palestine bothers you so much?

Nothing about supporting Palestine bothers me in the slightest. I'm explaining why someone might think a thread about organising a conference about an open source operating system in a city with many open source contributors is not the appropriate place to bring it up.

Don't bring geopolitics into everything. That way lies madness.

Re: DebConf20: offer to speak in Palestine censored

#19

Post by throwaway202001 » Mon, Jan 27, 2020, 5:15 PM UTC

If(?) you really want to read this, please note that the site is closely connected to a former Debian developer with an axe to grind and at least people in his very close proximity acting in bad faith [0][1].

Please use your judgement as to the quality of the contents of https://debian.community. I have no horse in this race, but I do notice it is a prime example of Godwin's law [2]...

[0] dig debian.community, dig danielpocock.com

[1] https://nm.debian.org/public/people/dd_all - no Daniel Pocock anymore

[2] https://debian.community/nazi-rhetoric-creeping-into-debian/

Re: DebConf20: offer to speak in Palestine censored

#20

Post by Udik » Mon, Jan 27, 2020, 5:15 PM UTC

tompccs wrote: post #18

techntoke wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is in order for us to do this, we have to do that? What about supporting Palestine bothers you so much?

Nothing about supporting Palestine bothers me in the slightest. I'm explaining why someone might think a thread about organising a conference about an open source operating system in a city with many open source contributors is not the appropriate place to bring it up. Don't bring geopolitics into everything. That way lies madness.

So would you have participated to a developer conference in apartheid South Africa? You think the issue was some sterile "geopolitics" debate?