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Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

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Re: Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

#171

Post by [deleted] »

monadic2 wrote: post #106
jacquesm wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real effect is that Turkey will get more and more behind the rest of the world because its citizens do not have access to information. Regimes that block access to the truth are structurally disadvantaging themselves and their citizens in the long run.

I’m not sure I buy this. Sure you can have access to the “truth” in the west, but you also see a staggering amount of propaganda/mass manipulation/willful distraction and no easy way of differentiating the two. That said, wikipedia specifically would be a massive loss to anyone.

[deleted]

Re: Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

#172

Post by AnthonyWnC »

Uehreka wrote: post #160
rolleiflex wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is neither new nor first. Turkey has a court tradition that spans, at this point, more than seven hundred years (excluding Eastern Roman law with Corpus Iuris Civilis , which if included would bring it to 2500, an unbroken chain from whence it came, Rome) - to the point that it customarily allowed every sub-nation of the Ottoman Empire to have their own court and apply their own laws. For example, if you were Ch…

While we’re talking history: I’ve heard that the system of laws codified under Justinian in the Byzantine empire ended up forming the basis for most Western law systems to this day. My math is probably off here, but is the current Turkish court system a continuous descendant from that system?

Not sure about the current Turkish system but the precursor to Turkey; the Ottoman Empire was a Islamic caliphate so they probably didn't adopt the same laws as Western system but it'd be still pretty accurate to say that the Byzantine empire formed some basis of Western laws (at least as a lineage of the Roman empire). Also as you probably know, Istanbul used to be called Constantinople.

Re: Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

#173

Post by LudwigNagasena »

rdiddly wrote: post #132

"... a 26 December 2019 ruling by the Constitutional Court of Turkey that the more than two and a half year block imposed by the Turkish government was unconstitutional." Your takeaways: 1) Turkey has a Constitutional Court. 2) Turkey has a constitution. 3) The court makes rulings and they are carried out. 4) Erdogan did something and it was "checked" and "balanced." Sounds an awful lot like a nation of laws, ruled b…

That's because Turkey, like Russia, is a hybrid regime, it is not a pure autocracy.

Re: Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

#174

Post by yostrovs »

rdiddly wrote: post #132

"... a 26 December 2019 ruling by the Constitutional Court of Turkey that the more than two and a half year block imposed by the Turkish government was unconstitutional." Your takeaways: 1) Turkey has a Constitutional Court. 2) Turkey has a constitution. 3) The court makes rulings and they are carried out. 4) Erdogan did something and it was "checked" and "balanced." Sounds an awful lot like a nation of laws, ruled b…

Some things, such as freedom of speech, I believe are universal and a government should need a very good reason to restrict some aspects of it. Therefore, access to Wikipedia should have been allowed to continue while the case was being run through the courts, as a point to be on the side of assuming the best for freedom.

Re: Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

#175

Post by ska »

afterburner wrote: post #162
rdiddly wrote: post #132

"... a 26 December 2019 ruling by the Constitutional Court of Turkey that the more than two and a half year block imposed by the Turkish government was unconstitutional." Your takeaways: 1) Turkey has a Constitutional Court. 2) Turkey has a constitution. 3) The court makes rulings and they are carried out. 4) Erdogan did something and it was "checked" and "balanced." Sounds an awful lot like a nation of laws, ruled b…

> Lot of yelling here today about the block - guys it was lifted. After a ruling by a court. Sure, after 2.5 years. And after being blocked in the first place.

These sorts of court cases are rarely resolved quickly in any country that I know of.

It seems easy from the outside, but it isn't.

Re: Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

#176

Post by chucksmash »

pintxo wrote: post #108
TheNorthman wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Common perception is that the US contributed the most to ending WW2 (Not the opinion at the time) Common perception is also that the US won the space race (Not the opinion at the time outside the US). Perhaps "common perception" isn't the right metric to go by.

Given that the US currently I has no vehicle to bring people to the ISS, it look like they lost in the long(er) term. /s

It has been nearly nine years since the US lost the capacity for manned space flight so there's a kernel of truth, /s or not.

This is an interesting time to be following along, as SpaceX just completed an in-flight abort test last weekend which was - by all appearances - a success.

According to spaceflightnow.com, the manned follow-up mission which will launch astronauts to the ISS on a Crew Dragon capsule, DM2, could happen within the next 50-100 days[1]:

> The schedule for the Demo-2 launch with Hurley and Behnken will partly be determined by a NASA decision in the coming weeks on whether to extend the length of their mission at the space station from a short-duration stay of about a week to an expedition that might last as long as several months.

> Bridenstine said the Demo-2 crew will have to undergo additional training to perform duties on the space station if NASA extends Hurley and Behnken’s mission.

> Kathy Lueders, NASA’s commercial crew program manager, suggested Friday that the Demo-2 mission might be ready for launch as soon as the first half of March.

> But it’s more likely to happen in April — at the soonest — when the space station’s crew is downsized to three people through October, assuming no U.S. crew launches in that period.

For those who missed it, the in-flight abort test itself was interesting[2].

[1]: https://spaceflightnow.com/2020/01/19/spacex-aces-final-majo...

[2]: https://youtu.be/mu5Ydz34oVc

Re: Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

#177

Post by _v7gu »

insomniacity wrote: post #141
decafbad wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the case anymore. They built an application level filter. For example, Wikipedia block was due to http header reading. https wasn't also a solution because of hand-shaking part. Even TOR can be blocked this way but it's reachable through obfs4proxy. Besides that, DNS queries to all servers are blocked if you try to get a blocked site's IP. No hijacking attempt here, as far as I can see. I routed only Wikip…

“DNS queries to all servers are blocked if you try to get a blocked site's IP” Wait, so if I was in Turkey, a request for wikipedia.org to my ISP DNS server would not only have failed, but caused all my other queries to fail as well? For how long?

A funny method to circumvent the block was to visit wikimedia. As long as your connection was kept alive, you could keep surfing wikipedia like it wasn't blocked at all!

Re: Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

#178

Post by jefftk »

rolleiflex wrote: post #145
agumonkey wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

honest question: is it a first / new or was it already the case before ?

This is neither new nor first. Turkey has a court tradition that spans, at this point, more than seven hundred years (excluding Eastern Roman law with Corpus Iuris Civilis , which if included would bring it to 2500, an unbroken chain from whence it came, Rome) - to the point that it customarily allowed every sub-nation of the Ottoman Empire to have their own court and apply their own laws. For example, if you were Ch…

> if you were Christian, you would get Christian judges, a Muslim would get the Muslim court and a Jewish person would likewise

Do you know how this worked with disputes between people of different religions?

Re: Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

#179

Post by cnst »

What about here in the US? Wikipedia is blocking my access to their website on my iPad because I'm too poor to afford a new one:

https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2019-December/1050...

Any news stories about such development? Or do they only care about Turkey?

Re: Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

#180

Post by boomboomsubban »

adventured wrote: post #166
boomboomsubban wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There is no scenario where Nazi Germany gets defeated without the US supplies and invasion and the USSR leadership openly admitted exactly that privately. Without the USSR involved in the war, US supplies would be unable to help stop the Germans and the German forces would not be spread thin enough for an invasion to be feasible. Both were necessary, but the Soviets gave up much more to secure the victory.

I fully agree that the Soviets were instrumental in helping to cripple the German war machine, eroding its supplies and manpower. That's not the premise floated by the more recent, popular, anti-US WW2 propaganda however that proclaims the Soviets won WW2 while intentionally ignoring all actual historical facts from WW2. Normandy was June 1944. The US had nukes by August 1945. The Germans signed their surrender in Ma…

>That's not the premise floated by the more recent, popular, anti-US WW2 propaganda however that proclaims the Soviets won WW2 while intentionally ignoring all actual historical facts from WW2.

The premise floated is that the Soviets paid the most to guarantee victory in WWII, hence "won" the war. US entry in the war may have been a significant turning point, but the Soviet involvement dwarfs the US involvement.

>There's a reasonable argument that the Soviets helped delay the possibility of the Nazis developing nuclear weapons. Historical evidence suggests the Nazis were nowhere close to developing a nuclear weapon though and they had largely abandoned the project in early 1942.

Without the incredibly taxing years of war with the USSR, Germany would have had the resources to all sorts of other things. Not only could they have furthered their own advances, they would have been able to disrupt the UK's assistance and limit US access to necessary resources. You can't simply say the US would have still been able to win that race without the Soviets war.

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