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Clayton Christensen has died

deseret.com

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Re: Clayton Christensen has died

#51

Post by michaelmarion »

I was fortunate enough to be able to take a variation on Professor Christensen's HBS course through a summer program of study offered by Duke University; his son, Matthew, was himself an alumnus of both Duke and HBS and was our instructor for the course.

We were lucky enough to have Professor Christensen himself fly in for a few days for guest lectures. From the minute he walked into the door, his intellectual brilliance was obvious, but our class very quickly discovered what a kind person he was.

(This was right in the thick of the iOS-versus-Android wars and I recall having quite the spirited lecture about the nature of the market and which platform would eventually win out!)

I'll remember Professor Christensen as a brilliant thinker and, most of all, a good man.

Re: Clayton Christensen has died

#52

Post by dorian-graph »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #36
ticmasta wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So without stereotyping too harshly, I wonder if his humility came from his faith? I've met quite a few LDS who show significant tolerance for beliefs that conflict with their own, maybe because historically Mormons have been the victims of intolerance?

From someone who lived in Utah for 20+ years and whose stepfamily are all Mormon, I wouldn't think of tolerance as one of the faith's defining characteristics. Although the intolerance often manifests itself as the kind of fake niceness found in movies when an old lady character needs to belittle someone with a sweet smile or calmly shut them out of polite society, not the fire breathing intolerance that wants to wag…

> From someone who lived in Utah for 20+ years

Members in Utah are different to members outside of Utah, haha.

Re: Clayton Christensen has died

#53

Post by brentjanderson »

I've long admired Clayton Christensen. My wife had the guts to ask his secretary to put me on his calendar. She did, and I got 15 minutes of his time. It was a surprise call, so when he was on the other end of the line, the best I could do was compliment him for the work he's done and his books (How will you measure your life, in particular).

He was so kind to take the time, and so genuine. That he would take the time to chat with a complete stranger for a few minutes has been one of the most important things I've learned from him, notwithstanding his books, talks, and theories.

Re: Clayton Christensen has died

#54

Post by ghaff »

guelo wrote: post #22

Somewhat off topic but it's interesting that Andy Grove was a big proponent of Christensen but Intel still got completely disrupted when the smartphone revolution kicked off. Though Grove was gone by the time of the iPhone he still should have seen it coming with the growing success of the Palm and Windows Mobile devices that preceded it.

Intel's main problem with mobile was that they saw x86 as a big potential incumbent advantage given their dominance on desktop and server. Which if they could have made competitive x86 mobile chips would probably have been an absolutely correct observation. But they couldn't even though they kept plugging away past the point of no return.

I saw Intel presentations during the mid-2000s or so where they were making a big deal about how x86 processors had fewer issues with Flash than other architectures did.

Re: Clayton Christensen has died

#55

Post by bart_spoon »

tomrod wrote: post #30
ticmasta wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So without stereotyping too harshly, I wonder if his humility came from his faith? I've met quite a few LDS who show significant tolerance for beliefs that conflict with their own, maybe because historically Mormons have been the victims of intolerance?

Exmormon here who has spent significant time with relatively larger names in that org. No, Clay was pretty unique in my view. With due respect to him, the tolerance of conflicting belief often portrayed by his co-adherents is typically extended as a proselytizing or marketing tactic and isn't offered to former Mormon congregants terribly often (see reddit.com/r/exmormon for thousands of documented experiences, or the…

I would say that r/exmormon may not be the best indication of the faith as the whole, as it is essentially the equivalent of a product review site where people with the the biggest axes to grind congregate and create bit of a bubble that is out of touch with reality, much like other subs that are essentially devoted to the dislike of or dissatisfaction with something like r/atheism, r/fuckepic, r/redpill, etc. That isn't to say there aren't valid individual experiences there. But they aren't reflective of the overall experience for most, even though they get painted that way.

A large portion of my Mormon friends fall on the spectrum of belief that would range from "less devout" to "completely lapsed", and none of them have had issues with the church as an organization or with individuals. But as such they don't really care or look for communities of disaffected ex-mormons for support, so their perspectives aren't heard.

Re: Clayton Christensen has died

#56

Post by quindecagon »

jjeaff wrote: post #48
wahern wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not many religions in the U.S. have tolerance issues with "blacks" or "women", per se. The LDS church was unique in that regard. But to be fair, that aspect seems to have been sincerely discarded. What lingers is the uncomfortable landscape it finds itself in, and given the background racial landscape in the U.S., I'm sure it'll be an especially long journey out of that wilderness.

That's laughable. How many black congregants do you think there were in white churches in the south in the 70s? There were no public curfuffles because it's simply not an issue if there are literally zero people of another race in your congregation.

How many are there today? Churches are one of the last places in american that are mostly segregated.

> As many as 87% of Christian churches in the United States are completely made up of only White or African-American parishioners.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_segregation_of_churches...

Re: Clayton Christensen has died

#57

Post by castlecrasher2 »

paulddraper wrote: post #41
wahern wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not many religions in the U.S. have tolerance issues with "blacks" or "women", per se. The LDS church was unique in that regard. But to be fair, that aspect seems to have been sincerely discarded. What lingers is the uncomfortable landscape it finds itself in, and given the background racial landscape in the U.S., I'm sure it'll be an especially long journey out of that wilderness.

Almost every religion that has been around as long as the LDS Church has the same issues. But if you're comparing it to churches that have been around only 10, 30, or 50 years, sure. --- It used to be that the LDS Church was "too" pro-black by society's standards. That was a large reason for Missouri's infamous Mormon "Extermination Order": > We believed them deluded fanatics, or weak and designing knaves, and that t…

Not to mention Utah was the second state to grant women the right to vote.

Re: Clayton Christensen has died

#58

Post by daxorid »

paulddraper wrote: post #33
ticmasta wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So without stereotyping too harshly, I wonder if his humility came from his faith? I've met quite a few LDS who show significant tolerance for beliefs that conflict with their own, maybe because historically Mormons have been the victims of intolerance?

As with many religions, "tolerance" is a sensitive issue: blacks, women, LGBT. But yes, there is the stereotype of a humble/reserved successful Mormon businessman. (E.g. I'd put Mitt Romney in that category too)

The LDS Church put its "racist" past behind itself fairly easily because the "Mark of Cain" canard was trivial to dismiss as misinterpretation.

LGBT acceptance will be a much, much tougher slog for them, given the central and critical importance that eternal families play in its doctrine and view of spiritual progression.

Re: Clayton Christensen has died

#59

Post by bart_spoon »

asveikau wrote: post #47
compiler-guy wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The LDS church was not unique in that regard at all. They are just ~30 years behind the society around them. For example, they had massive problems fully accepting blacks until the seventies, which was long after most mainstream religions got over their issues. But most mainstream religions (at least the protestand ones) had all kinds of trouble themselves in the forties. The LDS church isn't unique in its problems,…

I have no data, just a guess based on my understanding of cultural history, but I have to imagine that many churches in the US have been segregated at the local level and often de facto, rather than as a larger thing with formal institutional endorsement. For example, we Americans stereotype Catholicism as reflecting some European immigrant communities like Irish, Italians, Polish... But it's always been ok for an Af…

I think it's probably more to the structure of the denominations themselves. Like Catholicism, central to Mormonism is the central authority of the church, including priesthood authority. Most Protestant denominations, predominant in the US, are not nearly as rigid in their beliefs regarding priesthood authority, centralized authority, or even a set dogma. If your local Baptist/Lutheran/Methodist church isn't tolerant of certain beliefs, or you don't feel comfortable there, it is relatively easier to just start up your own church. In Mormonism (and Catholicism), this doesn't happen, because the centralized authority of the church is a key piece of the doctrine. For Protestant denominations, they largely reject this central authority, so they tend to be more fluid on these topics. In regards to race, this wasn't an issue with the Catholic church, but with other topics (say, celibacy of priests), there aren't "we maintain the legitimacy of the Church in Rome but our priests aren't celibate" type denominations popping up much.

I suspect this is why, even though there was much by way of explicit prohibition of races in many churches throughout the US, most churches seemed to have ended up segregated anyways.

Re: Clayton Christensen has died

#60

Post by bart_spoon »

scarface74 wrote: post #46
NeutralCrane wrote: post #25

More than anything, I admire him for the way in exemplified a balanced life. He was obviously hugely influential in the realm of business, but his career was clearly only ever a single part of his life, rather than the entirety of his life. He was wise without being arrogant. He was spiritual and contemplative without being preachy. He seems very much like the kind of person I aspire to be.

Well, he did write a book about living a balanced life: "How to measure your life". He wrote it with James Allworth - the cohost of Exponent. A podcast with Ben Thompson of Stratechery fame.

I know. And the reason it is so excellent is because he practices what he preaches in the book.
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