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23andMe lays off 100 people as DNA test sales decline

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Re: 23andMe lays off 100 people as DNA test sales decline

#331

Post by slimed »

glennpratt wrote: post #299
cookiecaper wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this isn't science fiction or conspiracy theory anymore. Several high-profile cold cases have gone hot as police have been trawling the datasets submitted to 23AndMe et al and investigating the family trees of persons whose DNA is similar-ish to the samples in unsolved cases. [0] The results are mainly bupkis anyway, and you're paying for the privilege of having police agencies across the country (world?) give…

It's all tradeoffs, I want some privacy, but I also like crimes being solved. In fact, I'd see that as a benefit even if I'm related to criminals. Of course this assumes it is used correctly and fairly, which is the hard part.

Stunning naivete on display here

Re: 23andMe lays off 100 people as DNA test sales decline

#332

Post by irrational »

tropo wrote: post #317
mc32 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Many people naively thought that it was going to be positive. Build your family tree, get better ancestry information. Even finding family relations can be fraught with issues like illegitimate children, sperm donors who thought they’d remain anonymous, secret affairs now outed and then there is the other health data aspect...

Some of those are evil secrets. Cheaters ought to be exposed. Living a lie is a terrible way to live.

Yeah, I don't feel at all bad about cheaters being exposed. But, children that result from that cheating... if you grew up thinking that your dad is your dad and then find out from a dna test that he isn't, that can really shake a person. And it's not from anything the child had any control over.

Re: 23andMe lays off 100 people as DNA test sales decline

#333

Post by hyperbovine »

killjoywashere wrote: post #177

The real risk in my mind is that this opens market space for Beijing-backed companies like Novogene in Sacramento. They will occupy that space and every adjacent space as fast as they can. They'll sequence your tumor genetics, or your germline to get a better read on you're kid's inherited disease. And you'll never know it because your doctor contracted with them, they signed a BAA (so it's all legal, right). And the…

This wild, unfounded fantasy completely misses the point: genetic privacy is fundamentally unlike other types of private information. It is trivially easy for someone to collect your genetic information if they really want to, completely legally and without your consent. They could, for example, obtain bits of the multitude of genetic material you spread around your environment simply by existing -- chewing gum, hair, cigarette butts, poop. Or, just look at a few close relatives of yours who overshared everything on some online database. And these are just the obvious ways.

Re: 23andMe lays off 100 people as DNA test sales decline

#334

Post by ewoodrich »

slimed wrote: post #331
glennpratt wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's all tradeoffs, I want some privacy, but I also like crimes being solved. In fact, I'd see that as a benefit even if I'm related to criminals. Of course this assumes it is used correctly and fairly, which is the hard part.

Stunning naivete on display here

How so? They point out the difficulty balancing personal privacy and tools to identify criminals who have evaded justice. Just because you don't agree with the relative importance placed on either side doesn't make them dumb or naive.

Re: 23andMe lays off 100 people as DNA test sales decline

#335

Post by rapnie »

jsgo wrote: post #79

> Wojcicki has theories Think the obvious one is that the results are shared and whether someone is a criminal or not (or will be one in the future), people are not particularly comfortable with sharing to parties they didn't initially trust it to for the purposes they trusted it for. Anecdotally, I bought a 23andme kit (just the genealogy one) but never submitted it because the labeling was to send it to the lab in…

I don't know about 23andme, but I have read Privacy Policies of similar services in the past and they are all riddled with legalese and unclear phrasing that make using the service a complete no-go for me.

Also note that if the policy seems clear you have to follow and read the PP's of their partners and 3rd-parties, and then their partners, etc.

IANAL and you should be before bestowing your trust in such service, unless you don't mind having your DNA profile out in the open.

Re: 23andMe lays off 100 people as DNA test sales decline

#336

Post by a254613e »

blackrock wrote: post #303

That’s what happens when bad press about your company comes out, and you’re too clueless to recognize it. Why do I really care about other people with similar genetics to me? This seems to be a greater risk for me, if I put myself into that database. And if someone else has a similar genetic as mine, and they commit a crime, then I’m automatically roped in as well. Do I really want the police knocking down my door, a…

And if someone kills every memeber of your family, and they leave DNA behind, but police are not allowed to use DNA databases which WOULD find the person that commited the crime and they don't have a match otherwise (since we're already making assumptions that something will definitely happen)?

I mean this goes both ways. One thing I don't understand about this whole hate for DNA databases and matching relative's DNA on HN is... why?

Why does something that can help police catch criminals is such a bad thing? Because there are false positives? But those exist in pretty much all other investigation techniques. Cell phone positions, being seen on a surveillance camera few blocks away, having a similar car and being in the area, etc. Why is DNA so much worse?

In fact wouldn't adding more variables, such as DNA, to the existing techniques reduce the number of false positives as in "Oh yeah it's the same car, but there's 0% DNA similarity so no need to investigate further"?

Police "barging into your house with assault rifles and ballistic protection gear, and pointing guns at all members of your family" seems extremely overkill for a, let's say, 10% DNA match. And if they do really do that, then it's a problem with a police that needs to be addressed - not the DNA databases.

Re: 23andMe lays off 100 people as DNA test sales decline

#337

Post by cnst »

Eric_WVGG wrote: post #109
marcell wrote: post #95

They sold 10M kits, and they primarily market in the US. DNA never changes, so you have a lifetime max of 1 purchase of 23andMe per lifetime. Their competitors have likely sold 15-30M as well, so maybe 30-40M of these kits have been sold. That's 10% of US market. What's the max conceivable penetration here? 20%?

It occurs to me that they could have followed the software trend where everything is a subscription service. As more is learned from the genome, they can deliver more value to the customers over time.

I believe they actually did have it as a subscription model at one point (I think it was at a time that it was a choice of either $400 one-time, or $99 for the kit + extra for the subscription), but I guess they have more competition now, plus it's cheaper?

Re: 23andMe lays off 100 people as DNA test sales decline

#338

Post by rantwasp »

pas wrote: post #274
JacobAldridge wrote: post #194

I happily share my income and net worth figures online, post here and everywhere using my real name, and I’m even doing a podcast now sharing all the gory details of going through fertility treatment from the male perspective. There’s no way in the world I would allow a company, or any other person or entity, to voluntarily have my DNA.

If it could be bought somewhere with only a big QR code one it and prepaid stamped envelope, I might buy it abroad, spit into it, seal it, send it and check results over Tor later.

you can buy it on Amazon or I also saw the kits at Target - pay with cash if extra paranoid. use a vpn, don't give your real name or real address. it's some work but it's doable if you want to.

Re: 23andMe lays off 100 people as DNA test sales decline

#339

Post by rantwasp »

kemyd wrote: post #122

Did anyone learn anything meaningful from these tests? I saw some results, for example, "I'm 3% Syrian, 10% Portugal, 8% Korean ...." etc., but do they provide more important results like "Sorry, you will have cancer in 2 years"?

yes + you can actually download the raw data and analyze it with a couple of other online tools (e.g. https://www.promethease.com). It may be worth it especially if you have a rare disease - but you'll have to be the judge of that

Re: 23andMe lays off 100 people as DNA test sales decline

#340

Post by drakonka »

war1025 wrote: post #100
nradov wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not quite true. Your DNA doesn't change, but 23andMe only does partial sequences on those test kits. As new techniques become available they can't necessarily retest old samples, so customers who want more complete results in the future will likely have to buy and submit new kits.

I've never seen them push that as a marketing angle. As a 23andMe customer from a couple years ago, it never even occured to me to try re-running the results.

I recently got an email or other notification of some sort offering a discount to get retested with their new V4 chip, as apparently my tests were run on V3.
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