Seattle-area voters to vote by smartphone in district election • Hacker News Board

Re: Seattle-area voters to vote by smartphone in district election

#51

Post by mslong » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 5:08 PM UTC

chimeracoder wrote: post #46

mslong wrote: post #42

Absolutely amazing that almost all techies in this thread are against this. Of course there is major security risks, and problems that have to be solved, but it is MASSIVELY outweighed by the fact that mobile voting would mean almost 100% voter turn out overnight if done on a national level. What are we at right now, 60% on average, maybe? Our nation's policies would change immediately with such a massive swing in vo…

> Of course there is major security risks, and problems that have to be solved, but it is MASSIVELY outweighed by the fact that mobile voting would mean almost 100% voter turn out overnight if done on a national level Why not just allow everyone to vote online, with no registration? Just type in your full name and select a candidate, no email or password required. It'd guarantee 100% turnout - maybe even >100% turnou…

Sorry, but explain to me how I'm able to submit my taxes securely every year online, or pay for my marketplace insurance securely every month, but voting on our own digital devices is somehow beyond reach of what we can technically fathom?

Re: Seattle-area voters to vote by smartphone in district election

#52

Post by legitster » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 5:09 PM UTC

Spivak wrote: post #38

legitster wrote: post #33

I want to point out that voting in Washington state is incredibly easy. They mail you a ballot, and a packet with detailed information on every single candidate and issue, and then you can drop your ballot just about anywhere - supermarket, mailbox, probably the street (who knows). It's probably the best voting system, hands down. I don't buy that a smartphone magically hits some convenience threshold that turns out…

I mean it would work for me. I typically vote by mail but if my phone popped a notification that was like "It's election day!" and let me vote it would be done less than 5m after the ping.

Voting without the information packet seems mind boggling to me. But then I realize that's how 99% of the world votes and I understand so much more now.

Re: Seattle-area voters to vote by smartphone in district election

#53

Post by choward » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 5:10 PM UTC

I still don't get what this has to do with smart phones. The article says you log in through a web based portal. They made a mention of phone apps though. I don't understand why voting would only be accessible by phone and not a normal computer.

Re: Seattle-area voters to vote by smartphone in district election

#54

Post by rayiner » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 5:12 PM UTC

rsynnott wrote: post #11

mikece wrote: post #3

Making a big case about voter turnout not being as great as other countries is a red herring. We have it really, really good in this country. So good that, practically speaking, it doesn't matter who gets elected because things will continue to stay good. I read low voter turnout as an implicit vote of confidence in the system as a whole. You can be sure that if [stuff] was actually hitting the fan then everyone woul…

> I read low voter turnout as an implicit vote of confidence in the system as a whole. Look at a map of voter turnout in Europe, and ask yourself is that REALLY credible. It's more likely that US low turnout is because, for many voters in many elections, their vote is kinda meaningless. If you live in California or Texas your vote in a presidential election is meaningless, say, and probably also in a senate election.…

> It's more likely that US low turnout is because, for many voters in many elections, their vote is kinda meaningless. If you live in California or Texas your vote in a presidential election is meaningless, say, and probably also in a senate election.

It's not like votes in state/municipal elections are higher, and in fact they are lower. (Governors' elections are very significant on meat-and-potatoes issues like transportation, etc., and routinely get 45-50% turnout.)

> Depending on your district, your vote in a house election is probably also meaningless; most are not competitive.

But why aren't they competitive? Because most people agree with the status quo. There is no point showing up to reaffirm the status who that you're happy with.

Re: Seattle-area voters to vote by smartphone in district election

#55

Post by tzs » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 5:14 PM UTC

Spivak wrote: post #34

tzs wrote: post #19

> King County voters will be able to use their name and birthdate to log in to a Web portal through the Internet browser on their phones, says Bryan Finney, the CEO of Democracy Live, the Seattle-based voting company providing the technology. If they mean that there is a public URL you go to, and then on the site only have to enter you birhdate and name to log in, and then you can vote--that can't be right. There's g…

> There's gotta be more than that. I mean I agree but this is how in-person voting works right now. The only "secret" information is my polling place but anyone who knows my name can figure that out since the voter records are public and includes my address.

In Washington state it wouldn't be quite that easy. You either have to show an acceptable photo ID to vote in person, or you have to sign a ballot declaration and then cast a provisional ballot which will be accepted if the signature on the declaration matches the signature on your registration record [1].

[1] https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=29A.40.160

Re: Seattle-area voters to vote by smartphone in district election

#56

Post by mugwort13 » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 5:16 PM UTC

Welcome to the end of freedom

Re: Seattle-area voters to vote by smartphone in district election

#57

Post by all_blue_chucks » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 5:17 PM UTC

sdmike1 wrote: post #17

lgleason wrote: post #12

As a mobile developer I think this is a REALLY bad idea because of the security implications surrounding it.

As a security guy I think this is a REALLY bad idea because of the security implications surrounding it.

How is it worse than voting by mail?

Re: Seattle-area voters to vote by smartphone in district election

#58

Post by slipheen » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 5:18 PM UTC

lukifer wrote: post #30

slipheen wrote: post #23

Beyond the security implications (which are huge and ought to be a deal breaker on their own), this seems to have a huge problem in that it's not private. Your abusive spouse/boss/dealer could tell you that they want to see you use the app to vote their way, and there's not much to prevent it. While going to a local precinct is inconvenient, no one knows what you do once you walk in that booth. That's important to av…

While I'm in total agreement, and think that this is likely a bad idea, doesn't the same problem exist with mail-in voting? An abusive party can hover over your shoulder while filling it out, and then walk you to the mailbox.

Absolutely. IMO this exacerbates the existing problem.

That said, if the app supported changing your vote later on, it could be preferable to the mail-in solution.

Re: Seattle-area voters to vote by smartphone in district election

#59

Post by anon463637 » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 5:18 PM UTC

Voting by mobile is extremely problematic and shocking.

1. No paper record.

2. No privacy.

A better way would be to use anonymous physical RFID pebbles that are placed in a container to indicate voting preference. Votes can be both weighed and scanned for counting redundancy very quickly.

Mail-in voting would consist of mailing back the pebble chit in an outside return envelope with an inner vote envelope designating the preference; the outer envelope is removed and mixed with many others before sorting.

Then later, no matter how a vote was cast, it's possible to find how a vote was counted (by the voter searching for the RFID code(s) they used) in real-time because all votes were mass-scanned in RFID containers... that is, there will be a number of large containers that contain all votes for a particular preference in a particular election. Subsequent elections reuse the RFIDs to eliminate waste. No hanging chads, no provisional ballots, no hacked voting machines and no voting by mobile.

Re: Seattle-area voters to vote by smartphone in district election

#60

Post by y-c-o-m-b » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 5:18 PM UTC

unethical_ban wrote: post #7

It sounded like a really silly verification system. Matching finger signatures on a smartphone with previous records? Perhaps the voters should get a set of one-time codes along with a PIN from the voting office, and use that to validate their vote.

Yeah the PIN would have been a smart choice. They already have mail-in ballots which means they could just as easily be given a PIN on the ballot they already receive.