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Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

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Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#291

I went 35 years of managing to be a capable, but never exceptional, achiever -- in high school, college, and in my career. I've also been a terrible procrastinator all during that time. It was never evident to me in school because I'd get the same grades as the kids working substantially harder than me. However, once I got into the workforce, and it took me many years to realize it, that performing to the "mean" was…

> ADHD (particularly the attention side, as an adult) I take it that means hyperactivity wasn't one of your symptoms? I have the suspicion that I suffer from ADD (you basically described the same life I've had), but the hyperactivity part makes me unsure of myself.

Hyperactivity affects only 50% of people with ADD. Check out this video where Daniel Amen shows 7 types of ADD, maybe you will recognize your patterns. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWnJ4wjVu9k

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#292

I went 35 years of managing to be a capable, but never exceptional, achiever -- in high school, college, and in my career. I've also been a terrible procrastinator all during that time. It was never evident to me in school because I'd get the same grades as the kids working substantially harder than me. However, once I got into the workforce, and it took me many years to realize it, that performing to the "mean" was…

Just as a counterpoint...I was successful throughout school and college but crashed and burned as soon as I moved to a new city for a software job at Amazon. Later, after quitting due to mental health issues I got a diagnosis for ADHD. I took vyvanse for about five or six months, but it didn't really help with my ADD symptoms and it gave me heart palpitations and made my anxiety worse.

After a lot of introspection, I realized that I was actually choosing to be disorganized, bad at managing my time, etc, because I didn't see these things as a priority. I've been working on my executive function, treating it as a skill that is possible to learn, and so far it's going well.

I got some really good advice from my therapist, who told me to stop saying I "should" do things and instead be honest with myself about whether something is actually a priority to me. She pointed out that whenever I tell myself I "should" do something and don't do it, I'm training my brain to ignore my own decisions. Before, I think my mindset was that I have default behaviors, and doing something productive takes effort - now I remind myself that I'm making a choice even when I default to my old habits.

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that it disgusts him, and that you in turn might appreciate the irony of the reward system actually hating itself is pretty strong evidence that there's more to the human experience than biologically reinforced operant conditioning.

> is pretty strong evidence that there's more to the human experience than biologically reinforced operant conditioning. I'm not sure that follows. The reward system can't produce output by itself. It requires an input. Any input. It requires an environment, a context. And one of the possible outputs is, well, his point of view. But that doesn't invalidate the reward system. It just shows how unpredictable it is.

There are layers upon layers in that reward system, although everything should be explainable. So how did the reward system come to a point that it does not want to believe it will die at some point and for that reason it had to create several imaginary stories such as religion etc? I wonder if it maybe has to do with group dynamics? In order for some conscious systems to be controlled by more powerful entities they would have had to been fed delusions in order for their reward systems to be happy and not feel cheated upon. Eg reward system wants to maximize survivability and when it is controlled by other systems in power it has to be led lies that after death it will be better so all in all the reward system gets so skewed that eventually it is likely to believe any other type of delusions as well. Such as for example that itself is not a reward system and if it was it would hate itself.

So in the end are all delusions defense mechanisms for that reward system to accept that things are unfair, this reward system might not be able to achieve the desired goals so it has to adapt itself? But why can't this reward system just hibernate without delusions?

Edit: actually I think coming to hate itself as a reward system is part of societal pressures. Society pressures each reward system to do common good for that society and creates morals. These morals have been created in a manner that one has to be something more than a selfish creature or otherwise gets shunned so reward system will create all those thoughts in order to avoid having to face selfish desires vs societal pressures head on?

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#294
post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sad in what way, seeing someone develop an 'old way' craft and apply it? Or that it is not more intertwined in the fabric of society?

In the fact that our society is selling us something so fake people have to relive past good stuff on the side.

I for one appreciate modern medicine and the internet. I also practice hand tool woodworking as a hobby, and while it scratches an itch to be more physical and present I’m in no way a Luddite.

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#295
I've only just recently started to appreciate how much emotions can utterly dominate our thinking. We believe we are rational creatures, but we have all these emotional mechanisms in our brain that kick in and do a hardware override of everything. For me the first step in getting better control of this is just to understand that it's happening.

I came to this realization from a fascinating book about anger[1]. The idea of this book is to explain how your brain activates anger so that you can deal with it better. Hopefully my explanation won't butcher the technical stuff too badly, but I believe the gist is that anger is a useful mechanism in your brain that is supposed to kick in when certain conditions are met and drive you toward taking action when you really need to.

As such, there's a part of your brain that's sitting around monitoring to figure out if any such conditions have been met. When it decides they have, then two things happen. One is that it sort of juices your brain with something that heightens alertness and focus. This boost gives you the mental energy to act. (Think of something kind of like an adrenaline rush.) The other is that it directs your attention to the issue. It does this over and over and over again until it is resolved. If you don't act (because of impulse control, lack of opportunity, or failure to decide how), it's like hitting a snooze button. You can put the thought out of your mind, but the alarm will go off again and bring it back.

So, in computer terms, there's a hardware control system here. It turns on and periodically generates a non-maskable interrupt which jumps you into a routine it provides. And it cranks up the CPU clock speed to the point of nearly overheating. And there is no instruction to just make it stop. The only way to shut it off is to change the conditions that enabled it.

Anyway, the point is that our thoughts exist within the framework of this system. Our brains are capable of rationality, but this framework can kick in and preempt that. And anger is just one of many systems!

Therefore, if you want to gain control of your thinking, you must gain control of your emotions. (Emotional regulation is supposed to be important to mental health, and after learning about this one emotion, I can see why.) Gaining control might be a misleading phrase here because you can't stop or eliminate them. Instead, your only choice is to learn how they work and how to manage them. You need to learn to work within the framework. Which takes practice and honing skills. If you don't, then you are just being led around blindly by them, leaving everything up to chance. Either you get a handle on them, or they control you. Or maybe I should say they do control you, and your only choice is to control how they control you.

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[1]: The book is called "Healing the Angry Brain: How Understanding the Way Your Brain Works Can Help You Control Anger and Aggression". See https://www.google.com/books/edition/Healing_the_Angry_Brain...

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we will never be able to copy the procedure that returns that output (consciousness, mindset, motivations, neurology, purpose, talents, traumas, upbringing, values). This particular claim feels too pessimistic to me. Sure you obviously can't copy someone's upbringing or traumas (nor should you), but in general these traits are trainable. Someone else might have a leg up on being born with greater charisma or focus,…

> it's probably enough to act with genuine, directed enjoyment and curiosity. This is true, but I think you are seriously underestimating how difficult this can be, and how easy it is to lose track of what it actually, genuinely is that gives you enjoyment.

That's the more important point here. Figuring out what gives you enjoyment and motivation is HARD and we shouldn't beat ourselves up if we haven't figured it out yet. The process of figuring it out is messy and chaotic but so long as we're making some progress we should be kind to ourselves.

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#297
post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment is a non-sequitor to the parent. You appear to be referring to neurotypical people abusing amphetemines ("people high on .."). GP is referring to using a prescription to manage an actual disorder. They're not the same thing, at all. Please do not commit the offense of saying that there's no such thing as ADHD, "everyone has trouble doing ..", etc.

I absolutely think there is a such thing as ADHD and these people were prescribed the medication to manage it. There was one person who I think managed to get a prescription despite being “normal” and I didn’t notice much about him that changed but we also didn’t hang out much after that.

> I absolutely think there is a such thing as ADHD and these people were prescribed the medication to manage it

Then why do you claim they were "high"? No, they're more toward "normal" than they would otherwise be.

Claiming ADHD people are high, while you are "sober" is a pejorative which diminishes the fact that ADHD exists and needs treatment, and is usually intended to embarrass and denigrate those that have it.

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#298
I recommend “Procrastination” by Burka & Yuen.

For the kind of person who frequents this site and endures suffering due to procrastination, even seeing their clinical definition of maladaptive perfectionism (and learning why procrastinating provides relief from it) could reduce your level of anxiety and self-flagellation, if not help you change your behavior.

The first section of their book provides a framework for understanding what is happening when you procrastinate, then orients your investigation into the underlying causes specific to you (or those not applicable to you). The book's second section offers self-directed cognitive behavioral therapies.

"Procrastination" is based on decades of the authors’ clinical experience. The 25th anniversary edition pulls in updated academic research from as far afield as behavioral economics (future discounting) that didn't exist when the book was first published.

[This comment is a reposted version of one of my own previous comments]

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#299
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh yes i did mean mindfulness meditation, i have been to several mindfulness retreats (vipassanas) and used to have ADHD. I find cold showers and a morning/evening mindfulness sit work wonders.

I suppose I should clarify the kind of mindfulness I'm talking about. Basically what I was taught was how to pay attention to what I'm feeling and where those emotions are coming from. This helps a lot with lowering my anxiety and stress levels. Unlike meditation, this isn't something that I stop to do, aside from maybe a brief pause to take a couple of breaths, it's something I do throughout the day when I start fee…

I don't think it's possible to procrastinate using mindfulness meditation. If you're trying to avoid something, what you're really trying to avoid are the associated emotions. Mindfulness meditation does literally the opposite.

I find that by letting the emotions I'd like to avoid come to my consciousness -- i.e. meditating -- I get used to them. That frequently outright removes my procrastinating problem.

> that I would procrastinate doing and contribute to my anxiety.

You don't have to schedule meditation. Just do it when you feel like it, expand your brief pauses. And if you don't feel like meditating for weeks or months, so be it.

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#300
post #142

As the society advances and problems are solved for us, we are left with the most central core problem, ourselves. Related to concepts like 'agency', 'impulse control', 'willpower', 'restraint', 'free will', 'delayed gratification' are connected to our status and self image. If you think humans as AI systems, we are facing issues with our reward function. Short term reward seems to overrule long term planning and goa…

“The ideal timeframe to use for the reward function” is an instance of an age old question about what’s really important in life. Most people agree that taking lots of heroin and dying in a matter of months is suboptimal. Most people also agree that living a life of utter sacrifice in pursuit of some higher goal might not be good either. You might be working on something pointless. Some self interest is actually bene…

“The ideal timeframe to use for the reward function”

One can punt on this. One can live for today under the constraint of no heroin, etc. Actually I think devs have a lot of exp with these types of problems as managing tech debt is a very similar problem---weighing (mutually interactive) actions at different timescales.

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